Scholar needs help with mystery rod

[andrea1046]

Dear All,
I am an art historian who is researching a four-jointed fishing rod made of wood (not bamboo or other cane) held at a museum where I did some other research. The rod is tricky because the wood appears to be quite old (best guess so far from a wood conservator is crab apple). The conservator has ruled out lancewood and ash, as well. However, the fittings could have been made any time between the 18th and 19th centuries. It's also short-- 9' 8" --and has clearly been repaired/modified at least once in its lifetime. The tip is clearly not original and this may be contributing to the short (< 10 feet) length of the rod overall.

Books and other written sources that I have found routinely identify older rods made with light-colored wood as lancewood. I am curious about this--have any of these rods ever been tested via laboratory methods such as a mass-spectrometer, etc., or have these always been "eyeball" identifications? (I'd like to attach a picture but there doesn't seem to be a way to do this...). I don't doubt that people who work with wood all the time have a very good sense of what they are looking at when they hold something in their hands, it's just that the written sources I've found all say "lancewood" but don't say why they think this is the case. I'd like to get a fix on the nature of these identifications before I recommend for or against sampling the wood for destructive testing.

Any help or pointer to sources, especially regarding very old rods, would be much appreciated. Thanks very much!

[baughb]

Hardy made fly rods called "Greenwood" or "Green Wood". Some investigation in that direction may prove helpful.

Bob

[Eric Peper]

My recollection was of "greenheart" flyrods. Greenheart is said to be second only to teak in water resistance. Here's a Google page with more commentary
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=c ... rt+fly+rod

[Gnome]

I can probably help, 970 527 3406

[shoaliedude]

I would suggest looking at old Victorian era advertisements and catalogues - particularly those of the English Hardy Brothers and American T.H. Chubb Rod Company.
http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/100525261
https://books.google.com/books?id=_jQ9A ... 00&f=false

Those mentioned most
Lancewood
Greenheart
Ash
Red Cedar is mentioned as being used by Leonard (viewtopic.php?f=69&t=59439&start=20
Hickory gets mentioned infrequently

[Gnome]

Being as I own one of the larger accumulations of that very type of rod you can, as schoaliedude advised, look for old advertising or get ahold of someone who actually can give a hands on experience, along with a history lesson like I can. The Gnomes Travelling Rod Show is one of the largest accumulation's of pre civil war rods that contains rods that show the evolution from pure wood to pure bamboo in existence. And has examples of each type mentioned by schoaliedude plus other types he did not mention.

Jeffrey L Hatton
970 527 3406
gnomishrodworks@tds.net

Author "Rod Crafting, a full color Pictorial and written history of the fishing rod"/ Curator of "The Gnomes Travelling Rod Show" The only travelling museum dedicated to the fishing rod in the world

[shoaliedude]

Being as I own one of the larger accumulations of that very type of rod you can, as schoaliedude advised, look for old advertising or get ahold of someone who actually can give a hands on experience, along with a history lesson like I can. The Gnomes Travelling Rod Show is one of the largest accumulation's of pre civil war rods that contains rods that show the evolution from pure wood to pure bamboo in existence. And has examples of each type mentioned by schoaliedude plus other types he did not mention.

Jeffrey L Hatton
970 527 3406
gnomishrodworks@tds.net

Author "Rod Crafting, a full color Pictorial and written history of the fishing rod"/ Curator of "The Gnomes Travelling Rod Show" The only travelling museum dedicated to the fishing rod in the world

I had forgotten about the use of (and spectacular beauty of) the type of wood in Tom Kerr's Rod shown on pp. 70/71. Well, here goes another day lost in "Rod Crafting."

[andrea1046]

Thanks for the suggestions--I am working my way through these. I have gotten permission from the museum to post a couple of pictures, which I will do soon (a straight upload doesn't seem to be possible--so I have to get them posted to a website first...).

I've checked Henry Pritchard's 1857 patent for "improved" ring guides--"my" rod doesn't have these--has an older style with the tunnel guides brazed to a flat strip of metal (pointed at both ends) which are attached with red gut windings. There are no manufacturer's markings on the rod anywhere, but it's clear from the skill and care that went into the rod that whoever made it did not make this one as a "one-off." The flat notch for the reel seat is above the fattest part of the butt--about in the middle. From there it tapers very gently (more or less straight, no swoop) to the first ferrule. There's plenty of room for a one-handed grip, maybe even two hands, below the reel seat, and certainly one could use a two-handed grip with one hand above the reel. I've never been fishing (hence my appeal to you all), but my instinct was to pick it up with two hands in this fashion. (Reel is long gone, sadly.)

I'm still curious about the identification and origin of the identifying information of the woods in these older rods--are these eyeball identifications, based on appearance, tradition, and the recommendations coming from manuals like Walton's _Compleat Angler_? Or have any of them ever been subjected to gas chromatography, dendrochronology, etc.?

I'm also interested in getting my hands on a picture of an 18th C rod. (The American Museum of Fly Fishing says they have no 18th C rods at all.)

Thanks very much--more soon!

Andrea

[andrea1046]

PS: Mr. Hatton, would you by any chance be willing to post/share a picture of your oldest wooden rod?

[shoaliedude]

PS: Mr. Hatton, would you by any chance be willing to post/share a picture of your oldest wooden rod?

It is already posted on this site, viewtopic.php?f=64&t=37248

[Gnome]

shoaliedudes posting of that link is not the oldest rod in the GTRS.

If andrea1046 will send me an email I will send you a couple of pictures of the late 1700's rod. rod. I base my ID of the woods from hands on experience of working with exotic woods as a rod maker/historian/restorationist and the search to obtain material to make replacement pieces is a whole different journey through history and modern wood yards.

JL Hatton

[andrea1046]

Thanks v. much: andrea1046@gmail.com --A