Future of Vintage Tackle Market

[Peales]

I really hope it’s all over. $1000-$3000 is too much for a mid-priced fly rod. I guess I’m one of a few who would be happy to see the rod market crash. I’d like to see it crash hard, and never get up again. The sooner the better, as I’m not getting any younger. I’ve got streams to explore and fish to catch—hopefully with a few new rods in hand. Bring it on!

[Flyman615]

The question I get from most folks I talk to is why pay a couple thousand dollars for a bamboo fly rod that may fall apart in your hands, when you can buy a rod from Walmart and do the same kind of fishing at a fraction of the expense, and probably catch a decent amount of fish. Like Chevies and Caddys, they both get you to the same place.

Tom DuRose

Well, if you--or the folks you talk to--are satisfied fishing with a Walmart rod, more power to you all.

If, on the other hand, some still like to fish with a well-made piece of art and craft, that's a whole other perspective altogether.

I prefer the latter and always will, no matter what the secondary or "vintage" tackle market is doing.

Scott

[sodbank]

Scott ,
Well said!!

Doug

[Webfly]

Why are Orvis rods getting decent money and selling pretty quick? I think some makes are still strong, some are not. Kind of the way that it's always been. Now Leonard's, they've been in a slump for a long time and I do not understand that one...

[jhuskey]

Agree on Orvis rods - I've followed quite a few, and have some some weird (high) dollars for very common models.
Saw a few months ago an excellent condition 4 3/8 oz. 8' go for over a grand... huh??? An Orvis Midge/Nymph at BIN of $700 plus shipping only lasted a few hours - okay that one I can see - it was Excellent+.

Leonards I don't get either.

[Flykuni3]

I wonder if the fall off of the Japanese market has adversely affected the Leonard. If I recall correctly, they really liked the Leonard over there. I showed one guy my 7' Duracane, and he really perked up when he heard Leonard Duracane.

[steeliefool]

Yeah, it’s all over with.
I’m afraid that fly fishing in general won’t be too far behind as soon as the new wears off of taking vacation trips to the Moon and the fares get cheaper, everyone will be trading their fishing gear for moon buggies. I also hear that plans are in the works for making regular trips to Mars as well. Once that happens, all bets are off for Mother Earth.

Ahh...but what of the "Sand Trout"(thought to be precursor of worms) on Arrakis?
Something light and extremely accurate. The SPICE must flow!!!!!!

[jhuskey]

I wonder if the fall off of the Japanese market has adversely affected the Leonard. If I recall correctly, they really liked the Leonard over there. I showed one guy my 7' Duracane, and he really perked up when he heard Leonard Duracane.

Flykuni3, what do you attribute the fall off to? I have sold several smaller CFO reels, and all, very quickley sold to gents in Japan. Sold a DT4 Phoenix a few months ago to a gent in Japan. These sales were top notch well conducted/received. I have read that the market in Japan values shorter rods, lighter lines, smaller reels, etc., which says Leonards (some) would be highly regarded. My sense is, there is no slump in buying power, but certainly no expert on that.

[Flykuni3]

Their balloon economy burst years ago, so less spending on fine whiskey, wine, Van Gogh and fly gear. I recall hearing a legendary story about Neil Young and some rare American guitar. According to the legend, Neil kept bidding just to prevent the rare guitar from going to Japan, where it would presumably be disassembled to see how it was made. (I don't believe it.)

Their streams and trout are generally smaller over there, and the Catskill-softer rod (like the Leonards) will do well. And everything over there is smaller anyways, ceilings, homes, cars, doors, food portions....

[Tommasini]

All the high end Graphite makers come out with "new" models every year. There is a small segment of Fly Rodders that want the latest in graphite and are willing to pay for it. That's probably what's keeping them a-flote.

[steeliefool]

(fləʊt)
n
(Nautical Terms) a flotilla; a fleet
vb (tr)
to skim (e.g. milk)
Just messin' wit u Marty!!
It's always about the money.

[jhuskey]

Their balloon economy burst years ago, so less spending on fine whiskey, wine, Van Gogh and fly gear. I recall hearing a legendary story about Neil Young and some rare American guitar. According to the legend, Neil kept bidding just to prevent the rare guitar from going to Japan, where it would presumably be disassembled to see how it was made. (I don't believe it.)

Their streams and trout are generally smaller over there, and the Catskill-softer rod (like the Leonards) will do well. And everything over there is smaller anyways, ceilings, homes, cars, doors, food portions....

The smaller part I am aware of - Leonard and such same with my small CFO's - but when was the balloon economy event. My reels were sold 2015-16-17.
I could google but not sure what I would find I could believe.

[cutthroatkid]

This has been an interesting series of posts. It seems many are predicting doom about bamboo rod fishing or at least collecting.

To some degree I am reminded of a show I saw on PBS a few years back. A woman had found a large canvas with abstract artwork painted on it and felt it might have been painted by Jackson Pollack. A partial thumbprint in the dried paint did indeed match Pollack's print supporting her claim, but an art "expert" on Pollack was of the opinion that the canvas had not been painted by Pollack. Depending on who was correct, the canvas was either worth several million dollars or worth slightly more than a plain piece of canvas you would use to cover a pile of firewood. The advice I've always heard about art is to buy what you like but it's very risky to buy as an investment. Vintage collectable rods are a bit different in that they can be used functionally but it is definitely a limited market - and they aren't really "art", though they can be superb examples of craftsmanship. Only a small percentage of people are going to have the interest, knowledge, and disposable income to pay a premium for a famous maker's rod.

Currently the modern rodmakers are asking several thousand dollars for a new rod with two tips. Sweetgrass Mantra rods with one tip, which I think are an attempt by the boo boys to market a rod which more people can afford, sells for $1100 which is probably about as low as a manufacturer can go and still turn a profit. I haven't heard that modern makers are starving for business, in fact I've heard many have hugh waiting lists. Maybe the people buying bamboo today are not looking at it as an investment and would rather give their money to someone actively making the rods today. The quality of modern rods is probably equal to any ever produced, maybe better with modern glues.

[Ocduff]

I think appeal of Orvis rods is this:

1. Plentiful on eBay etc
2. Well made
3. Widely recognized brand by newbies
4. Never seem to need restoration
5. Are all the bamboo rod most people need
6. Good price point and value
7. No real guilt factor in fishing or damaging them

I’d include myself in this list. Basically they are a no brainer for those who just want a decent stick and be done with the search. No guides to rewrap no re varnishing. Never see sets in them. Nice quality package at less than some new graphite rods.

Not saying others here share those requirements in a rod but just stating that’s likely the obvious appeal. You can buy into the bamboo mystique for $500 and not have no know much about it. It might be your younger buyers doing this and maybe once they try it and see bamboo’s strengths and also it’s limitations these rods may be back on market with no real buyers.

[Gnome]

I have done my best to try to interest people in bamboo rods by Packing the "GTRS" all over the country and sharing the history with my fellow anglers and it is sad to see hundreds just walk by the display with no clue of what they are passing on or how it relates to their modern tackle I.E. the parents and grandparents and great great grandparents and great great great grandparents of our tools we use today. offered a fishable Landman that I paid over 300 for and it has been passed on in the classifieds with its price at 200 which is almost half of what I paid for it and it is a very fishable rod, it will probably just stay in the gtrs where people can enjoy it if they want too.

[gofish60]

In 2007, due to some health scares, I started selling off most of my high end rods, mostly Leonards and Paynes. Many of you purchased them (thank you!!). I kept about 20 Paynes', all needing restoration. These have been coming out slowly as they are restored to new by the finest restorationist working today-(IMHO-so don't get mad at me for saying that). Only a couple left, and when they're sold it will be at about 1/2 to 2/3 of what they brought 10 years ago. Many reasons for that, all previously stated in this thread. It's been a fun ride, beginning in the 70's, watching things explode after "The Movie" caused many new people to discover fly fishing, and in turn, bamboo flyrods.
I still have about 20 bamboo rods, with reels to match, all top grade, and my kids will at some point have to decide what to do with them. I only fish a couple of them, my favorites. As I said, it's been a fun ride.
gofish

[Trains&Canes]

Why all this pessimism?!!! You love them, I love them. We fish them, spend more restoring them than we will recoup from a future sale. The prices of things go up and down and we all have our personal crystal balls, and most of yours are shriveling up like sour grapes.
Mark

[gofish60]

Good points, Mark.
Just discussing this morning the incredible amount of money we "lose" during our adult lives on automobiles and trucks.
Bamboo rods are small potatoes compared to that, and personally, I enjoy the rods much more than whatever I'm usually driving. That said, one exception. I did have a few Corvettes in the past, and recall actually going on a fishing trip with my bamboo and other gear in the right seat. A bit over the top, but what the heck, it was fun to plan and do it. Did catch a lot of heat in the campground about it, tho.
gofish

[Trains&Canes]

First of all, I realize that this thread is about current dollar values of vintage tackle, and my emotional responses might perhaps belong in a different thread.

I can certainly see that anyone who has put high hopes in their rod collection to cover the costs of retirement or senior care, or heck, “let the wife or kids sell it if they want their nest egg,” why yes, I can see they might be wondering if they should have paid more attention to their IRA.

But here’s the thing: If you light a campfire do you regret that you no longer have the firewood when the fire burns out?
When you buy a ticket for the concert do you regret that your money is gone now that the music is over?

How do you feel about your Kenmore stove that is only 4 years old, and the computer board goes out, and the repair costs more than a new one, and the warranty you paid an extra $150 for only went for three years? Remember the one and only stove your parents bought as newly weds, that they still used when you graduated from college?

I’m talking about value and values.

I’ll be fishing this afternoon and evening with a rod built by a guy or gal who was proud of his work, who did this work without aspirations to wealth, but a man or woman with incredible skills and meticulous attention to practical detail and elegant beauty. I’ll have a stretch of river to myself, but these people (some living and some dead,) will share the evening with me in one of the most beautiful places on earth. That’s value.

Mark

[sunjpg]

Back in late May of 1985 (31 yo), I was fishing at Grant's Camps on Kennebago Lake in Maine. I had a new Powell graphite rod that I was kinda proud of.

There was an older gentleman staying in the next cabin whose casting skills were just beautiful to watch. As we returned from the water one evening I saw that he had a cane rod, and I asked him about it.

He invited me over and showed me his three F.E. Thomas Special rods, and he allowed me to cast them the next day. It was day one of a lifelong infatuation with cane rods, and specifically FET Specials and Brown Tones.

Within two weeks I had found two FET 8' 2/2 Brown Tones at a James Julia Auction in Westbrook, Maine. I paid $70 for one, and $90 for the other. Remember that this was a few years before the Richard Oliver High Rollers auctions started, and before the huge escalation in prices. I still have one of those two 8'ers 34 years later.

Over the years, I've had over 50 FET rods pass through my hands, half a dozen Paynes, a few Leonards, Heddons and a couple KC Crockers. I still have about 14 FET Specials and Brown Tones. I have a decent collection of FET catalogs, posters and assorted papers. I enjoy having them, and fishing a few of them still.

I never considered them to be investments, and probably could not recoup what I paid for them. So what... the pleasure and enjoyment they've given for over 34 years is priceless. When I think of all the things in life that I've either lost money on, or wasted money on, cane rods would not even make the list.

Just my perspective...

Jay

Sunapee, NH