David Norwich Bamboo Rods

[creakycane]

Norwich is a maker from Peebles, Scotland, and I am fairly unfamiliar with his work. Does anyone know anything about the longish (8'6 - 9') 4 and 5 wt line rods he made for nymphing? Sawyer Nymph is one and the Netheravon Nymph another. The examples I have seen seem to be nicely executed, but I have heard very little. Any opinions/info. appreciated. Maybe our UK/European members know more? Happy New Year.

[Lewis Chessman]

David Norwich's work is much admired in the UK. His cane in particular holds its value well. Now retired, he was an inventive maker and skilled builder, starting his business in Glasgow circa '77, I believe. I've just looked through our past emails where he says that at one stage he bought Richard Walker's milling machine from him, the ones "his carp blanks were built on''. Not a bad heritage! Initially he focused on cane rods, and certainly built some to a Garrison taper.
When carbon and boron appeared he diversified while still building cane to order, eventually rolling his own graphite blanks in-house to achieve the results he strove for. As far as I know, he is the only solo builder in Britain to have rolled his own. One curious innovation was a salmon rod with a triangular butt section. I'd love to try one. He retired about 5 years ago but was still doing the odd repair last I heard.

David once contributed frequently on the UK Fly Fishing Forum's rod building pages, generously sharing his advice for many years. A quick look will, I'm sure, show the depth of his knowledge of the craft and industry.
I can't help you with your specific rod question but I know Mr. Norwich has been quite happy to answer enquiries about his work in the past. I can't find his company website for his email address but if you join the UKFFF and go to his Profile here you can email or pm him directly and see his past posts. He hasn't visited for some months but it might be worth trying there if you want to contact him personally.
All the best.

[creakycane]

David Norwich's work is much admired in the UK. His cane in particular holds its value well. Now retired, he was an inventive maker and skilled builder, starting his business in Glasgow circa '77, I believe. I've just looked through our past emails where he says that at one stage he bought Richard Walker's milling machine from him, the ones "his carp blanks were built on''. Not a bad heritage! Initially he focused on cane rods, and certainly built some to a Garrison taper.
When carbon and boron appeared he diversified while still building cane to order, eventually rolling his own graphite blanks in-house to achieve the results he strove for. As far as I know, he is the only solo builder in Britain to have rolled his own. One curious innovation was a salmon rod with a triangular butt section. I'd love to try one. He retired about 5 years ago but was still doing the odd repair last I heard.

David once contributed frequently on the UK Fly Fishing Forum's rod building pages, generously sharing his advice for many years. A quick look will, I'm sure, show the depth of his knowledge of the craft and industry.
I can't help you with your specific rod question but I know Mr. Norwich has been quite happy to answer enquiries about his work in the past. I can't find his company website for his email address but if you join the UKFFF and go to his Profile here you can email or pm him directly and see his past posts. He hasn't visited for some months but it might be worth trying there if you want to contact him personally.
All the best.

Great information. Thank you very much for the post!

[dr knuemann]

I got a David Norwich Bamboo rod.It is a 2/2 8'2'' impregnated bamboo rod for #3/4 .It was made in the 1980s.It weighs 120 gr. and the taper is on the soft sweet side.Tips are thin and wraps are light green tipped black.As said by Lewis Chessman a rod in good quality and fine taper.Grip could be better cork though.
In the 1980 there was a dealer in Tübingen who sold his rods.Most of the dealer's rod were faster and shorter Norwiches than mine ( 7' to 7'6''-I think Garrison tapers)) and not impregnated ones.Price at that time was at the same level as Brunner rods about 500 DM.He also sold blanks of Norwich rods.
Later I bought from the UK 2 of his Carbon rods directly from his firm,which he specially made for me.They were of green colour and very well made.One I sold recently to a friend who likes it a lot.At that time he mainly made Carbon rods but also still bamboo rods on Special order.
The bamboo rod I got I bought not directly from David Norwich.I bought it about 5 years ago in Internet because I knew David Norwich was making nice bamboo rods and I got it for about $ 280.

[Paul B]

David Norwich produced several hundred Bamboo/Split cane rods during his career before me moved totally into Graphite around 1981.Few of these rods found there way to the States as most were destined for Europe and Japan. The rods were made on a much modified 1946 vintage Milling Machine that he obtained from the Cane Rod makers of J and B Walker after they closed business.

David produced two series of rods;
The "LL" or Long Lift with a dark heat treated swelled butt taper and the "Cane Spirit" series. a more traditional honey coloured lightly heat treated model.
Both series of rods could be ordered with an impregnated or a varnished finish.

[creakycane]

Thanks for all the replies. Looking closer at the one in front of me, it has honey varnished cane, red wraps (no tipping), blued ferrules and is 8'9" 2/2, for a 4wt line, weighing 4.55 oz. C/r over cork. It has a full working, but not sloppy, action - dampens fairly well. Labelled "The Netheravon Nymph" in spiral around the butt, it is also labelled as David Norwich, Peebles, Scotland up the rod. HW Cork quality is excellent; varnish excellent. SN on butt,and tips labelled 1 and 2. action-wise, It is along the lines of the lightest Gary Howells 8'6" med-slow 5 wts; at least that is the only rod I have in my collection that is similar. It is not as parabolic as the longer, light Young para clones I know, though the butt of this Norwich rod has very little taper.

[henkverhaar]

I've just looked through our past emails where he says that at one stage he bought Richard Walker's milling machine from him, the ones "his carp blanks were built on''. Not a bad heritage!

Hmmm. If that is the same 'milling machine' that Dick Walker described himself in his book 'Rod Building for Amateurs', where he, incidentally, also recounts the creation of his original Mk III and IV carp rods - the legendary rods that he used to set the then UK carp weight record (Clarissa, from Redmire Pool), calling that a 'milling machine is probably an overstatement ;-) . Dick described the hobbyist method of glueing strips on top of a 'tapered' length of wood with a trapezium-shaped cross section (not unlike the bed of a MHM), then planing the sides of the strip by hand to make the combined wood bed and bamboo strip into a triangle.

Having said that, I was reasonably familiar with David Norwich's graphite rods (he rolled his own blanks - I still have the video that he made in the 1990's or so), and had some email exchanges with him a couple years ago about bamboo stuff, when I accidentally discovered that he had also built bamboo. Of his bamboo I only know from others, but his graphite was/is well-regarded.

[henkverhaar]

David Norwich produced several hundred Bamboo/Split cane rods during his career before me moved totally into Graphite around 1981. [...] The rods were made on a much modified 1946 vintage Milling Machine that he obtained from the Cane Rod makers of J and B Walker after they closed business.

Yeah, that makes more sense. After Dick Walker had designed, though trial and error, his Mk VI (by the methods laid out in his book, mentioned above), the model was commercialized (first) by J and B Walker (no relatives as far as I know), who had also provided him with cane (according to the tale in his book, when Dick first approached them for a custom carp rod, they turned him down, stating that there was no perceived market for carp rods, but that he should try and make one himself, and gave him a stash of bamboo to work with). They would certainly have had a milling machine for their commercial operations, unlike the 'planing form' that Dick Walker used.

[Lewis Chessman]

I've just looked through our past emails where he says that at one stage he bought Richard Walker's milling machine from him, the ones "his carp blanks were built on''. Not a bad heritage!

Hmmm. If that is the same 'milling machine' that Dick Walker described himself in his book 'Rod Building for Amateurs', where he, incidentally, also recounts the creation of his original Mk III and IV carp rods - the legendary rods that he used to set the then UK carp weight record (Clarissa, from Redmire Pool), calling that a 'milling machine is probably an overstatement ;-) . Dick described the hobbyist method of glueing strips on top of a 'tapered' length of wood with a trapezium-shaped cross section (not unlike the bed of a MHM), then planing the sides of the strip by hand to make the combined wood bed and bamboo strip into a triangle.

Having said that, I was reasonably familiar with David Norwich's graphite rods (he rolled his own blanks - I still have the video that he made in the 1990's or so), and had some email exchanges with him a couple years ago about bamboo stuff, when I accidentally discovered that he had also built bamboo. Of his bamboo I only know from others, but his graphite was/is well-regarded.

In case your ''Hmmm'' carries doubt to any truth, I don't mind sharing a short passage (as I received it, 03/18) from the email:

Tthere are a few pages in my website that might interest you. They are ot very well laid out but you might find them interesting.

One makes reference to Hardy and how inept they had become.The other is about my connection to Richard Walker. I have the milling machine his cane carp blanks where made on.

Sadly, perhaps crucially, the full context is lost as David's website is no longer on line so I haven't included the links he gave. Certainly, he doesn't say that he used the machine professionally, as I implied above, just that (in 2018) he has it.

For the record, I read a forum post elsewhere stating that David first set up shop building cane in Queen Street, Glasgow before moving to Peebles, and think that is correct but don't know the dates. Late 1960/Early '70s?
Handy for the train, anyway!

Regarding sourcing his culms, I found this quote from himself on the UKFFF:

Re Scottie rods. The older original Aberdeen models from the 60s early 70s are well worth seeking out. I would be very wary of purchasing any Sharpes cane built after the late 60s. There was a definite downturn in the quality of the actual bamboo used.
At the Sharpe's companies winding up. I bought sight unseen, 500 culms direct from them in the 80s. The bamboo looked like very good stuff..... it turned out that it had been stored under tarpaulins in their yard though..... It was damp and soft. As soon as I started to use it I saw the problems with it. I complained and was told it had been stored like that for some years.......

Rods I have subsequently seen and repaired show use of this poor quality bamboo.

I was refunded promptly I might add.


David.

Sharpes was acquired by Farlows in 1971 and they ceased cane production in Aberdeen in 1982, to put a date for context.

I noticed on Whiteaddersfishingmuseum Sharpes page that "the brand and assets were acquired by S & J Tackle. S& J Tackle were Simon and John Weaver".
Would that be the same John Weaver who worked with Owen Caudle and Geoffrey Rivaz on their 'John Weaver Collection'?
Seems probable ....

There are several David Norwich videos available on YouTube, here. including a 5 minute film of him making an EV2 fly rod and others on forming and shaping handles.
He no longer appears to have any on line profile so I can only hope he is in good health and enjoying his retirement fully.

[Lewis Chessman]

I've found a D. Norwich post UKFFF I was looking for which confirms the J.B. Walker story (post 15):

Hi Gary,

That was direct from Sharpe. I was offered one of the original machines as well. I already had the J.B Walker machine I bought when thay went out of business and could not take it.
I still have that. That has a history too. A lot of Richard Walkers cane blanks were made on it.

David.

Hope that helps.

David Norwich produced several hundred Bamboo/Split cane rods during his career before me moved totally into Graphite around 1981. [...] The rods were made on a much modified 1946 vintage Milling Machine that he obtained from the Cane Rod makers of J and B Walker after they closed business.

Yeah, that makes more sense. After Dick Walker had designed, though trial and error, his Mk VI (by the methods laid out in his book, mentioned above), the model was commercialized (first) by J and B Walker (no relatives as far as I know), ......

I think this is a tad confusing. There's J&B whisky and Johnny Walker whisky but I don't know of J and B Walker, rod makers.

There have been several unrelated Walkers making rods in the UK which muddies the water. I'm happy to be corrected but, as I understand it:

There was a J A Walker & Co. (1929-38) Howick Street, Alnwick. (MFRS, post 3, here).

There was a J.J.S. Walker Bampton & Co. (Walker Bampton) based in Alnwick, Northumberland (early '30s-1968). The company employed ex-Hardy workers.

There was J.B. Walker of Newcastle in the inter-war years and it is possible that this is the same J.B. Walker of
Hythe, Kent, (example here) who was working in England in the post-war period. I think this is to whom David refers above.

There is also Ken Walker, founding partner of Bruce and Walker (B&W) with Jim Bruce.

Tangentially, Jim's father was 'B. James', maker, of London. 'B. James' was actually also James Bruce (Sr.) but I understand he inverted the name to avoid confusion with a contemporary competitor (who I don't know) when founding his rod-making company. In 1959, still building cane, the Bruces (B. James Co.) moved to Upton, Cambridge, where Jim met Ken. They developed the first UK glass rod and were very early adopters of graphite. B&W are there still.

[henkverhaar]

As far as which walker was which, I defer. I've checked 'Rod Building for Amateurs' and the original makers that Dick Walker initially approached were in fact Allcocks - the ones who said there was no market for carp rods, and provided Dick with culms to try and make his own.

As for the milling machine: note that Dave Norwich, in the quote you provided, actually did not say he acquired Dick Walker's milling machine, he acquired the milling machine that the blanks for the commercial rods built on Dick's tapers were milled on - which, as I commented earlier, _does_ make sense. As far as I know, Dick Walker himself never used/owned a 'real' milling machine...

[Lewis Chessman]

As for the milling machine: note that Dave Norwich, in the quote you provided, actually did not say he acquired Dick Walker's milling machine, he acquired the milling machine that the blanks for the commercial rods built on Dick's tapers were milled on - which, as I commented earlier, _does_ make sense. As far as I know, Dick Walker himself never used/owned a 'real' milling machine...

You are quite right, henkverhaar, thank you!

[bearbutt]

This thread needs some...pictures.

As others have said, David built a fine rod. I had him make me an 8'2" LL for a 5/6 back in 1983 for my father's retirement--I was living in the UK at that time, so it was a practical choice to choose a British builder. The rod has a really nice swelled butt, cane work is excellent, and so is the finish (it's impregnated). The funky wraps are quick repairs my dad made decades ago. The rod roll casts nicely, but is a bit softer than I'd prefer for most of my fishing. I also saved Norwich's catalogue and our correspondence. I only wish my dad was around to share his thoughts on the rod.

bb













bb

[Lewis Chessman]

That's great, bearbutt, your dad's wraps must make it even more special for you.

Thanks for sharing the catalogue. It's the first time I've seen that address and it determines that he was still in Glasgow in 1983. Also very useful to see a reference to an 'L.C.R. Graphite' series, again new to me. I'd love to know what L.C.R. stands for and how '1-7' correlates with length/weight.

[bearbutt]

I'd love to know what L.C.R. stands for and how '1-7' correlates with length/weight.

Apparently the blanks were made by Loomis--so this was a transition period for Norwich, I think. Here's the relevant page from the catalogue:



Here's the last page:



Yeah, my dad's wraps were special--he wasn't much for style--just wanted to get out on the water fishing and not wait for the right thread to arrive. LOL.

bb

[Lewis Chessman]

Thank you very much, bb, that's a big help to me. Loomis Composites (LC) only existed between 1980 and '82 when G.L. left to form G. Loomis. It then became Loomis Composite Inc. (LCI) (then LCI became LCI Excelon -> Osprey -> Talon, who still make some old Excelon blanks designed by Russ Peak with CF Burkheimer back around '82).

For their time the LC rods were exceptional. I have two LCs and one LCI '96% Graphites' and compared to a contemporary 1st Gen Fenwick HMG they are faster, crisper and with quicker recovery.

Interesting that David refers to Loomis's ''famous computer'. While at Lamiglas in '73, G.L. made contacts within Boeing of Seattle and with their help established computer-generated deflection codes for 32 rods. I guess that caught the industries' attention even then.

Your June '83 catalogue sits at the very time when Gary has actually left LC ('82) and his former partners to set up alone. He had no connection with LCI after the break. So, I'm left wondering if the DN LCRs are 'old stock' LCs, ordered for import before Gary left, or new post-Loomis LCIs? From David's script I suspect the former.
In fact, as one of G.L.'s partners at LC, Don Mook, had designed the LC rod tapers (using GL's '96% Graphite' recipe) and some LCI tapers it's more of historical interest (to me, anyway!) than anything to do with quality.
Sorry to talk carbon on this forum but this early period interests me and already the mists of time are obscuring it.
My thanks again, bb.

[bearbutt]

Thanks, Lewis--this is all good information to know. It's especially relevant for makers like Norwich, who were working between two traditions--an old one and a new one.

One key thing about the catalogue is that is reveals that Norwich hand-planed his final tapers. He doesn't mention the milling machine; he does mention his planing forms, and in fact contracted with a small Scottish engineering company to produce and planing forms for resale--so this is another small detail about his work to keep in mind.

bb

[Paul B]

For what it’s worth one of my own sets of planing forms was from a cancelled order that was originally destined for David Norwich

[Mahseer]

Norwich was referring to JB Walker of Hythe, Kent. A great resource for anglers of modest means in post war Britain. I still have the rod my father made from one of their kits for my 9th birthday.

[Jackthecat121]

I bought a bamboo rod and the seller told me it was made by David Norwich...

Can any of you experts weigh in on its authenticity?

Thanks much