Leonard Catskill Rods

[fefferje]

Were signature wraps a necessary characteristic of the Catskill series of rods? I have what appears to be a pre-fire 36 made sometime between 1923 and 1925 based on the butt cap die stamp. The rod weighs 3.15 ounces with size 9 and 14 ferrules. The rod has plain tan wraps. There are 2 Mids along with 2 tips. The patent dates are on the female butt ferrule. The rod has a metal reel seat and a cork grip that is 4.25 inches. The 36 was introduced in 1923. Another rod that has a similar configuration was the 38 1/2 and was introduced in 1927. The rod has the die stamp that contains the Leonard and Mills designation without the US Patent script. “Tournament” is inscribed above the die stamp on the reelseat. Of course if the wrong butt cap was put on the rod that would throw of the identification. I don’t know when the 49DF was first introduced and if there is any validity in steering the rod in that direction. Carmine Lisella sold the rod to me as a 38 1/2, and said the rod was restored by Walt Carpenter. Below are some images of the rod. Thanks to any and all with your help. Jed Feffer

[headwaters]

Jed--

I recognize that there is some confusion or controversy on the dates associated with the various Leonard butt cap stampings.

However, first, I consider it unlikely that the butt cap was replaced. I also believe that the "LEONARD & MILLS
CO." stamping shown in your photo was used until 1923 or 1924. I further believe that, if it was a Model 38, which was first listed in the catalog in 1927, it would have a different (later) butt cap stamping i.e., one that read: THE / LEONARD / ROD / H.L. LEONARD Rod CO. / MAKERS, which was used from 1923 or 1924 until roughly 1927. Finally, I believe that the "U.S. PAT. OFF." stamping was used beginning in 1929.

I'll be interested in reading other contributions.

[fefferje]

Rupert, I follow your logic. The one characteristic that points away from this rod being a Leonard 36, which was listed as a Catskill, is the fact that this rod has no signature wraps. That led to my question whether one of the necessary characteristics of a Catskill rod are signature wraps. Thanks for chiming in. Jed

[tomvt]

Hi Jed and Rupert
My 38H which I took to the Leonard Gathering has no signature wraps and looks just like yours Jed. Also my rod marking indicates a date between 1910 and 1925. -tom

[upstate]

Not being home and away from my catalogues I am wondering if there is a Catskill Tournament? Also I do not think they had hook keepers as pictured.
As I said I am away from my reference materials so cannot look these things up. I am inclined to believe the rod is as Carmine stated.

Tom

[Short Tip]

I have a Model 35 Catskill stamped Tournament with similar wraps. The sig wraps you are referring to were the "Deluxe" windings and I don't think they were unique to or indicative of a Catskill rod, even though many had those wraps.

I think the 38 1/2 Fairy Catskill would gauge lighter than this rod. I recently sold a 36 Catskill (with a tag) at the same ferrule sizes and a similar weight to your rod.

[fefferje]

Thanks Paul. That clarifies things. Did they describe “Deluxe Wraps” in the catalogs when they described the Catskill rods? Rupert wrote me the descriptions of the “Baby”, “Fairy” and “Regular” Catskill Rods from the 1923 Mills Catalog and there was no mention of Deluxe wraps. Besides the light line designation on the Catskill series was there anything else that set them apart?? Thanks Paul. Jed

[fefferje]

Paul, I went back to the 1923 catalog description. At the bottom of the description of the Catskill rods there is a statement which says you can order any of the Catskill rods with intermediates or not, and you can choose a Deluxe model as pictured on page 30 of the catalog. Thanks again for the clarification. Jed

[Short Tip]

This is a 1925 Mills Catalog page. See the very last line on page.

[fefferje]

Paul, thanks for reprinting the page. Rupert thinks that “Deluxe” meant tipping on the wraps. Does that drawing that’s referenced on page 18 show tipped wraps or signature wraps or both. Perhaps “Deluxe” meant you got both. Out of curiosity where did you find out your understanding of “Deluxe”? I will ask Rupert the same question. Thanks again Paul. Jed

[Short Tip]

Paul, thanks for reprinting the page. Rupert thinks that “Deluxe” meant tipping on the wraps. Does that drawing that’s referenced on page 18 show tipped wraps or signature wraps or both. Perhaps “Deluxe” meant you got both. Out of curiosity where did you find out your understanding of “Deluxe”? I will ask Rupert the same question. Thanks again Paul. Jed

The drawing doesn't show anything different, oddly enough.

I take "Deluxe" wraps to mean both tipping and signature, a la an FET Special. I've had them on a 50 1/2 DF (with tag), this 50 Hewitt we have been discussing, which certainly bears no resemblance to a Catskill, and others. I'm sure someone knows more than I.

[fefferje]

Thanks Paul. I think until people pipe up to the contrary I will just believe I have a regular old Leonard 36 from the early twenties. Enjoy your Hewitt discussion. I’ve been looking through my rods focusing how the wraps are doing. I’ve found that the ferrule wraps are developing cracks in them. Up here the ice shanties are showing up on the local lake. We have a couple feet of accumulated snow in places. I’m going to have to journey south sooner or later. I was hoping Superboo in Maine was happening, but now I think not. I do have plans to fish on either the Kennebago or the Magalloway this spring. We’ll stay at either Grants Camps or Bosebuck Camps. Hope all is well for you in Virginia. Best, Jed