Re: Rice's No. 104 Gold silk

TSPEYFLY · Post by **TSPEYFLY** » 02/17/20 06:16

Hello everyone
Thought there might be an interest in this thread.
Have to reset a few ferrules, and replace a few wraps on a Granger, 1062 Premier built between 1930-1934.
Interesting contrast between ambered varnish over the wraps, and the actual original color once the varnish is removed.
Rice's, #104 'Gold" OO silk thread is what Granger and W/M Granger used on the 'Premier', Deluxe, and Favorite rods.
I've mentioned this before but I'll put it out there again. I use nitrocellulose Lacquer to color preserve. I then use this really outstanding product from International Violin Company, alcohol based amber extract. I started learning to restore bamboo in 05', and had used everything recommended in the restoration handbook from Michael, Kirkfield, A.J. Campbell. I don't remember how I got on to this extract, but when I did start using it I didn't have to always 'experiment' with all the other recommended dyes and such with silk to get that 'match'.
I know Rich, aka 'Eastprong', also uses brown extract. Nice thing about being alcohol based, if you keep it sealed between uses it'll last a long time. I think I've done about 30 rods using the amber extract and I've had my little bottle since 06'-07'.

para_adams · Post by **para_adams** » 02/17/20 08:59

Thank you for this information, it is really great to know. Do you apply a coat of the amber extract as a separate layer between the lacquer and the varnish, or do you somehow mix it with the varnish? And if its a separate layer, is one coating usually about right or do you vary the number of coats to match the amount of aging of the original wraps?

TSPEYFLY · Post by **TSPEYFLY** » 02/17/20 09:37

Hi
I blend the extract with the varnish typically and vary the shade to match. One thing I noticed when I started using the extract is there is a point where the amber/reddish color is indistinguishable from the rest of the rod. That didn't come out right but,I'll come back to that later. Given that the extract is alcohol based it readily mixes with vanish or the lacquer. I treat the wrap with Nitrocellulose Lacquer with three applications of a 50:50 blend with acetone. What is key here is that I squeegee each application between coats with a latex glove to get complete saturation. This also greatly reduces bulk at the wrap, so that when you're done varnishing the varnish lays flat at the wraps with nice corners. A word of caution. Squeegeeing the wraps you can actually 'pop' a thread.
It had never happened to me until one day talking with Steve Blake, he asked me how I was getting the result of my wraps, so I told him. He told me then that a thread could 'pop' applying the finish that way. Worked on a rod later that evening and sure as hell a thread popped: not once, but twice! At that time I'd been restoring for about ten years. To match the original wraps on this Premier I will blend some of the extract in with the lacquer, and then again with the varnish as required.
Thomas

para_adams · Post by **para_adams** » 02/17/20 15:55

Thomas, huge thanks for your post, but you were going to say regarding the color match....?

cdmoore · Post by **cdmoore** » 02/18/20 22:14

Probably I'm obtuse, but what do you mean by "pop"? Actually break? Or something else?

Thanks!

TSPEYFLY · Post by **TSPEYFLY** » 02/18/20 22:36

CD
What I mean by 'pop' is that one of the strands of the wrap has been pushed up from the others.
Thomas

cdmoore · Post by **cdmoore** » 02/19/20 08:04

Got it. Thanks for the clarification.

TSPEYFLY · Post by **TSPEYFLY** » 02/20/20 21:27

Para
I not sure what you are asking me.
Could you perhaps rephrase that for me?
Thomas

para_adams · Post by **para_adams** » 02/21/20 00:17

TSPEYFLY wrote:Para
I not sure what you are asking me.
Could you perhaps rephrase that for me?
Thomas

My bad, I mis-read your comments. Thanks again, I've ordered some amber extract from the violin repair supplier and am looking forward to testing it out.

TSPEYFLY · Post by **TSPEYFLY** » 02/21/20 03:35

Para
You'll be very happy that you did. If you can remember, take a few shots of the before and after you've used the extract.
Best,
Thomas

para_adams · Post by **para_adams** » 02/21/20 08:40

Generally, what is the range of extract:varnish mix ratio?

eastprong · Post by **eastprong** » 02/21/20 10:44

Do not exceed 1:16. 1:20 is my preferred mix.

--Rich

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