I recently acquired these cedar (sic, birch, spruce, beech) fly rod tubes for two 1880s Orvis fly rods. Two questions for the board:
1. Were these early cedar (sic,birch) tubes painted when sold (middle photo) or should this paint be removed?
2. The top caps are missing and need to be replaced. Were these screw-in (bottom photo) or hinged (top photo)? Or both?
Thanks
(Click on photo to enlarge)
Early Orvis birch, beech, spruce fly rod tubes
Moderator: TheMontyMan
Early Orvis birch, beech, spruce fly rod tubes
#1
Last edited by Mike N on 02/27/21 14:14, edited 7 times in total.
- 2dabacking
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Re: Early Orvis cedar fly rod tubes
#2Hello.
1. Paint is correct.
2. Screw-in cap is correct. Can't remember if some are hinged. I can check if you don't get a response from someone else soon.
Joel
1. Paint is correct.
2. Screw-in cap is correct. Can't remember if some are hinged. I can check if you don't get a response from someone else soon.
Joel
Re: Early Orvis cedar fly rod tubes
#3Thanks, Joel. The Spring 2010 Lang’s auction had this Orvis cedar tube which appears to be unpainted and with a hinged cap, so I hope we can see a few other examples, too.2dabacking wrote:Hello.
1. Paint is correct.
2. Screw-in cap is correct. Can't remember if some are hinged. I can check if you don't get a response from someone else soon.
Joel
Dr. Elder was kind enough to post his 1880s Orvis rod tube on ORCA Reel Talk. As you can see, it is painted, also, albeit a darker color.
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Re: Early Orvis cedar fly rod tubes
#4Mike, well, jeez, you didn't ask for a shade (joking, of course). You just wanted to know if it was painted. I'll check and report back.
Joel
Joel
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Re: Early Orvis cedar fly rod tubes
#5Mike,
Here are a few.
One from my collection with a screw cap (rod has 1882 Eggleston seat):
One from Morphy's Auction 2015 with a different shade of paint and a hinge and latch cap:
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/42 ... asting-rod
One from Forum archives with black paint and what looks like a screw cap:
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=78947
Best I can do at the moment.
Best wishes,
Joel
Here are a few.
One from my collection with a screw cap (rod has 1882 Eggleston seat):
One from Morphy's Auction 2015 with a different shade of paint and a hinge and latch cap:
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/42 ... asting-rod
One from Forum archives with black paint and what looks like a screw cap:
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=78947
Best I can do at the moment.
Best wishes,
Joel
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Re: Early Orvis cedar fly rod tubes
#6Wood rod tubes - Probably more than you want to know so I won't add all the source for this now. (my thoughts without source yet is in parenthesis)
First - these rod tubes are not cedar.
CF Orvis first wood tubes (1870) were square and tapered, with a flip top lid.
CF Orvis second wood tubes were round with a flip top lid.
CF Orvis third wood tubes were round with a thin stamped overlay lid over the cap (three captured screws)
Tube 1 and 2 were sold at the same time, there was cross over in early catalogs.
Tube 3 has a pat pending date on the inside of the thin cap "July 1883". However I have rods in their correct tubes that have flip lids and the rods were made in the 90's so the cap date is not the "start" use date.
CF Orvis painted the tubes and called it "mahogany" colored. (from the hardware paint/varnish store across the street on Union)
All the lids I've seen were made from black walnut (as the reel cases ... maybe the cutout as the grain goes across instead of turned like a rod and cutoff ), even the screw lids.
The tubes were tapered
The round tubes were made like cooperage/barrels. The staves have multiple angles top to bottom and edge cut. The three tin metal bands (made next door in the Swett tin shop) hold the staves together with a single nail at start and finish of the band.
Cooperage/barrels are either "tight" or "slack". Tight are used for liquids like kegs etc. Slack are less expensive and aren't liquid tight (they were painted to seal the tube). These are the woods that were used to make slack barrels in Vermont from most often, to least. Spruce, Beech, Birch, Eastern white pine, red maple - a softer maple than sugar/hard maple. These woods were local as were many of the woods that CF Orvis rod makers experimented with. At one point in the 60's Franklin, Charles more successful older brother, was part owner in a lumber mill around Manchester Center.
I've searched for who brought the cooperage skills to the rod shop but haven't located that yet. There was a lot of cooperage happening to the east of the Orvis shop.
First - these rod tubes are not cedar.
CF Orvis first wood tubes (1870) were square and tapered, with a flip top lid.
CF Orvis second wood tubes were round with a flip top lid.
CF Orvis third wood tubes were round with a thin stamped overlay lid over the cap (three captured screws)
Tube 1 and 2 were sold at the same time, there was cross over in early catalogs.
Tube 3 has a pat pending date on the inside of the thin cap "July 1883". However I have rods in their correct tubes that have flip lids and the rods were made in the 90's so the cap date is not the "start" use date.
CF Orvis painted the tubes and called it "mahogany" colored. (from the hardware paint/varnish store across the street on Union)
All the lids I've seen were made from black walnut (as the reel cases ... maybe the cutout as the grain goes across instead of turned like a rod and cutoff ), even the screw lids.
The tubes were tapered
The round tubes were made like cooperage/barrels. The staves have multiple angles top to bottom and edge cut. The three tin metal bands (made next door in the Swett tin shop) hold the staves together with a single nail at start and finish of the band.
Cooperage/barrels are either "tight" or "slack". Tight are used for liquids like kegs etc. Slack are less expensive and aren't liquid tight (they were painted to seal the tube). These are the woods that were used to make slack barrels in Vermont from most often, to least. Spruce, Beech, Birch, Eastern white pine, red maple - a softer maple than sugar/hard maple. These woods were local as were many of the woods that CF Orvis rod makers experimented with. At one point in the 60's Franklin, Charles more successful older brother, was part owner in a lumber mill around Manchester Center.
I've searched for who brought the cooperage skills to the rod shop but haven't located that yet. There was a lot of cooperage happening to the east of the Orvis shop.
Re: Early Orvis cedar fly rod tubes
#7 Thank you very much, Joel and Royce.
Royce- thanks especially for the wood composition info.On closer examination the inside of both of my tubes (photos in original post above) appear to be birch. If I have replacements lids made, I’ll lean towards black walnut like the reel cases, as you mentioned.
Joel- thank you for the link on Morphy’s of this lid photo.
Mike N.
Royce- thanks especially for the wood composition info.On closer examination the inside of both of my tubes (photos in original post above) appear to be birch. If I have replacements lids made, I’ll lean towards black walnut like the reel cases, as you mentioned.
Joel- thank you for the link on Morphy’s of this lid photo.
Mike N.
Re: Early Orvis cedar (sic,Birch) fly rod tubes
#8I thought I would update this thread with a few additional photos of some great Orvis birch (beech, spruce) fly rod cases in the round, with either a “screw on” July 24, 1882 patented cap or a hinged cap with hook and eye closure. Per Royce, these caps were typically black walnut. Note that the metal screw-on cap was patented about a month after the famous reel seat was assigned to CFO.
(Tap on photo to enlarge)
(Tap on photo to enlarge)
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Re: Early Orvis birch, beech, spruce fly rod tubes
#9Mike,
Nice collection of wood tubes.
The tubes could be eastern white pine as it was used in local cooperage also.
You probably all ready knew, the patent on the screw cap did not belong to CFO.
Nice collection of wood tubes.
The tubes could be eastern white pine as it was used in local cooperage also.
You probably all ready knew, the patent on the screw cap did not belong to CFO.