Another strange rod from Fred Divine / the Raven

[Bethabara]

I now consider it a blessing to restore normal, uneventful, common, everyday, predictable cane fly rods.

I just received another oddity from a guy who purchased a Fred Divine [Raven] fly rod and no, I have not taken pictures as of yet.
I'm still trying to figure out what to do with it or more aptly, a strategic plan of attack.
I have had my share of Divine rods, from a green salmon rod, a Fairy rod, a twisted rod, a white rod, and now a black one. Right now I'm mapping everything out on this Raven.

If anyone has some input or has seen or owned one, please contact me, thanks, Mike.

[Bill Charles]

This is my 8' 3/2 Raven

[Webfly]

Wow, Bill, you've got a gem. We like pictures...

[NewUtahCaneAngler]

From what I'm seeing, why in the world would someone wish to restore it?

[Bethabara]

In answer to NewUtahCaneAngler:
Well, if you have ever used a 90 or 100 year old fly rod the guides have a bad habit of coming off due to rotten silk thread & ferrules come lose.
And if you restore for any length of time you simply can not resist fishing that same magnificent reed.
And lets face it, fly rods, vintage or otherwise were built to fish and not to ogle or hang on a cabin wall.
One of the few pleasures I have in this life is to test cast and fish a Wheeler, Dickerson or a simple Horrocks & Ibbotson, South Bend, off my dock.
When I hand a rod back to the owner and tell him [you can fish this rod] that's exactly what I mean.

[Bethabara]

Mr. Charles: You have me not only at a disadvantage but envious as well.
Very strange wraps you have on that rod although gold does look better on black than red wraps.
The spiral wraps, as far as I know are not consistent with the known Fred Divine patterns and intermediates.
Also, the only Raven rod I have seen are originally bright red, of course after age, softening varnish, and oxidation turns dark red.
And again, terrible black leaching through the the red wraps.
Your rod is the first Raven I've seen with a John Lanman reel seat on it.

Also, am I seeing American style left to right snake guides?
All the other Fred Divine rods up to 1927 that I have seen are right to left snake guides.
I would like to know what year or the code that is on the butt cap. Possibly beginning with H or 1917?
It is indeed very typical that the black is leaching through the wraps, this is due to the first clear coat place on at the factory.
Mike

[NewUtahCaneAngler]

In answer to NewUtahCaneAngler:
Well, if you have ever used a 90 or 100 year old fly rod the guides have a bad habit of coming off due to rotten silk thread & ferrules come lose.
And if you restore for any length of time you simply can not resist fishing that same magnificent reed.
And lets face it, fly rods, vintage or otherwise were built to fish and not to ogle or hang on a cabin wall.
One of the few pleasures I have in this life is to test cast and fish a Wheeler, Dickerson or a simple Horrocks & Ibbotson, South Bend, off my dock.
When I hand a rod back to the owner and tell him [you can fish this rod] that's exactly what I mean.

Have you considered overwrapping the existing silk guide wraps with white and then varnishing them to turn them invisible? I know that you know what you are doing, but that rod looks very good to me. Now if your client was going to fish this as his only rod, then heck yes, you have to do something to make it usable for another 100 years.

[Bill Charles]

When viewed from above the snake guides are right to left. The serial # is R6700.

As far as I know, no one has found a catalogue reference for this model. I've always assumed it was a special order. My example certainly would have been a very nice presentation piece.

[Webfly]

In answer to NewUtahCaneAngler:
Well, if you have ever used a 90 or 100 year old fly rod the guides have a bad habit of coming off due to rotten silk thread & ferrules come lose.
And if you restore for any length of time you simply can not resist fishing that same magnificent reed.
And lets face it, fly rods, vintage or otherwise were built to fish and not to ogle or hang on a cabin wall.
One of the few pleasures I have in this life is to test cast and fish a Wheeler, Dickerson or a simple Horrocks & Ibbotson, South Bend, off my dock.
When I hand a rod back to the owner and tell him [you can fish this rod] that's exactly what I mean.

Have you considered overwrapping the existing silk guide wraps with white and then varnishing them to turn them invisible? I know that you know what you are doing, but that rod looks very good to me. Now if your client was going to fish this as his only rod, then heck yes, you have to do something to make it usable for another 100 years.

Hey Utah, are you seeing photos that we are not? The only ones that I see are Bill Charles and not the OP's. It would benefit the OP to add photos if he wants sound advice.

[wrong66]

Same thing here. I keep scrolling up to see if I've missed a link or something. There's nothing to miss.

[Bethabara]

I will be able to post pictures Wednesday evening. I just got back from Wisconsin and trying to milk a no work schedule for one more day.
And when I do post I want to do a fairly good explanation and think I can clear up a few myths or my educated guesstimation.

No on the wrap over, if the rod was originally double wrapped then yes I would.
The real bad part of these Divine black and white rods are the coating leaching through the wraps and a royal pain the patoot.

I'm sure you're not going to like this but my client is not only a non-fly-fisher, he is also a newly out of the closet collector, he is facing retirement in two years, and has a handsome income. He only has 17 rods at this time but a darn nice start on collecting.

He does call and ask me questions like; should I buy this one? My answers are about 20 no's for every one yes. He is learning what to look for.

PS: A guy I know from church came to my house asking me to look at something he bought from an elderly neighbor. In the original marked alum. tube and the mint condition bag was a mint condition 8.0 ft. Phillipson Powerpact in all it's glory. So I told him what it is worth and then he told me what he paid for it. The elderly owner set the price at $15.00. Gosh I just love to hear stuff like this, of course it never happens to me.

Mike
PS: The new rod owner has no interest in fly fishing and has never been. I told him to keep an eye out for a Premier, they would make nice book-ends.

[NewUtahCaneAngler]

Ah, yes, I was looking at Bill's nice Raven! Sorry about the confusion.

[16parachuteadams]

Bill's Raven is in all details identical to the Raven in my collection, but in a little better shape than mine. Very nice example Bill. The spiral pattern is seen on many Divines going back to the original lancewood rods that Fred built himself.

[Bethabara]

I will post pictures tomorrow morning or afternoon.

R-6700 would make your rod late 1927 and the name written by hand incursive.

The one I have here is labeled that same as the makers label.
Mike

[Bethabara]

I took 13 pictures up loaded them to Post Image and can only hope they are good enough to view. Butt cap serial # H-1524
The first bag you see at the bottom is original and definitely not usable, if you notice both sides, the top side is cooked from the sun most likely near a window from a shed or window in an upper story attic but the bottom still looks reasonable. Unfortunately, the butt and mid sections were also cooked.
Were not talking alligatored, but looked more like granulated hard as a rock black sand. Both butt and mid were un-savable to the labels. Fortunately, I was able to save both but I cleaned one a bit too much, that's not easy top do you know.

I tried to match the wrap color and tread size of the tips as close as I could but the tips were so dark and the wraps, still original, are peppered with black leaching through. Nevertheless, the original tips were saved by the tip tube but fortunately had no tip bag inside so I polished them out and over coated the wraps only on the tip sections. I made an attempt to recreate both bag and tip sleeves. The butt and mid sections got so hot as to push the mid female ferrule out 1/8th in. and pushed the butt section female out a full 1/4 inch. Those were the first issues I took care of.

The reel seat and grip were caked on and the same horrible cooked varnish on the seat. Had to do a lot of re-bluing and I coated the cork grip with one rubbed in coat of Truoil oil. Here are some interesting notes; I had no choice but to strip both butt and mid sections and recoat with the best concept of the original coating only with blacking instead of whiting, came out real good and flexes without issues. However, when I stripped the blanks to the wood I found that every inch of the base coat was green dye the same as the first salmon I posted pictures of in this last spring. Also of special interest, I notice there were [NO] faults, no cracks, open joint, no blemishes of any kind. So this might dispel any thoughts about sub-standard cane used.

If anyone has any questions I will do my best to answer. Remember, I'm under orders, this is not my personal property, and in the immortal words of EF Woolworth, "The customer is always right"! If it were my rod, I would have done a few things different.

https://postimg.cc/gallery/56BKqkt

[Greg Reynolds]

Both are handsome rods...

[Bamboocollector#1]

Nice job! I think it turned out well!

[Bethabara]

Yes, I think this 9.0 foot rod turned out very well, thank you for the kind words.
It was a challenge to match the color and finish but well worth the effort.
I was privileged to test the cane out on my dock today and was very pleased with the cast-ability of the rod.
I mounted a Pflueger reel on it with a 6-wt. double taper line.
What surprised me is the absence of pinning wire in the ferrules.
Mike
PS: I guess I'm pretty well caught up and no more rods to do so maybe I can have some free time on the White River and a no work Thanksgiving.

[spruce grouse]

Nice Raven, Bill. How does it cast? As a Baltimore Ravens fan since their inception and having grown up not far from Utica, I always thought it would be neat to have one.

[Bethabara]

It's a bit heavy in the hand, I would not say it is a full flex rod but leaning that way.
I can definitely roll cast it with a 6 wt. - weight forward line, I would classify it as a streamer heavy trout rod.
Mike