Restoration of bamboo fly rods or not?

[OldCane]

I think original is great, but unless an extremely rare and important historical rod that provides details on how a maker made his few rods some generations ago, that a common sense approach makes the most sense. I hope I don't mislead a future collector of Montague rods into thinking, see Montague did use South Bend ferrules for some of their rods back in the late 20th century, and publish a book on just how little other experts know about the good old days. I still rest easy and don't wake up with cold sweats.

The rods that I own for the most part are production rods. Rods turned out by the hundred, if not thousands. With few exceptions they've also lead a hard life and I've restored or had restored many of them. I do try to maintain original looks, but often parts are not available. I even own a couple of rods that say restored by XYZ and in some cases that was done in the '50's, '60's or '70's using non-original parts. Should I leave a cheap replacement reel seat or hunt for an original? Or maybe replace it with a new modern reel seat?

In many cases a rod need new tips or tip scarfs. It has a missing bag and no tube. Sometimes missing a lot more that than that too.

I own a 7'6" Heddon made rod that someone converted into a butchered spinning rod. I had that restored into a damn nice Heddon. Not original, but also not as found. It is a sweet looking and casting rod and not a pile of steaming poop that it once was.

Or what good is a 7'6" Montague Fishkill missing both tips? I doubt that it will ever be displayed in a museum and it sure as heck won't be fished as just a butt section! So yes, I'll restore it maybe not using original Montague ferrules and use it as a fishing rod.

[Flykuni3]

“It depends.”

[Canewrap]

For the common blue collar production rods, I wouldn't sweat it. They are fishing rods, first and foremost. I got out of restoring old blue collar rods because it is a losing proposition. If you try to sell it as what it is, a fishing rod - I found that most people don't want it unless it has the original parts and trying to replace any missing original parts will mean you will have more into it than it is worth. But, it really does come down to how you feel about a rod that is yours and if it would bother you to have a rod that has a lot of replacement parts.

[Franknrod]

On questions like this I always ask, "What's my goal?" If the answer is to learn from and preserve history and ultimately pass on the rods and collection to other owners or a museum, then carefully preserving rods in original condition including flaws makes the most sense.

On the other hand, if the goal is to enjoy fishing historical rods, some restoration/repairs will normally be necessary.

When the goal is profit, one has to pay attention to the desires of the next buyer. I agree with many of the comments above that complete disclosure is the only ethical approach when selling a rod. While this may not be the case today, I suspect that the work of some of our excellent restorers will be valued and studied in the future. Saying that a rod was made by "xxx" and restored by "yyyy in the year xxxx" is not only the right approach, but it may become attractive to a buyer who wants to fish the rod at least occasionally.

My own goal is to make and own rods that are a joy to fish. I have no interest in owning rods with historical value or restoring rods to original condition. As a result, I pick up "project" rods from garage sales, thrift shops and collectors that have damaged/non original components or poor repairs but have "good bones." I then ask, "How can this rod become something a modern fly fisher would enjoy using?" For example, if I can turn an old "bass taper" rod with non-original tips, rusty replacement guides, and a botched re-varnishing job into an awesome steelhead rod that a friend loves to fish, I have achieved my goal. The historical value of that rod was destroyed long before I acquired it. No amount of restoration work would have added any value to the rod or to the historical record. However, that old rod now has a second life in a fishery that did not exist (great lakes steelhead) when it was manufactured.

[fishbates]

Many good comments here
In the past restorations seemed to be the deal
Not anymore
I only restore rods with varnish meltdown
I have a Garrison 7’ with heavy crazing in the varnish, not soft, so restoration is not in order
Restored rods are a good value and yep you cant say
Original unless you bought the rod new
As seen here rods were repaired often
And you can’t tell;(
D

[Flykuni3]

Sometimes you can let them go, fish on and someone down the line will have to restore; and then sometimes a rod is in such poor shape it absolutely must be restored, rescued from itself, and you really have no choice; in that case, you are acting in the best interests of the rod and the sport. I have a Divine Fairy that Mike Sinclair rescued: scarfed, rewrapped and varnished. It is good for another 100 seasons. Maybe I should slip a note into the tube stating I restored via Mike Sinclair...and man, it looks fantastic. No regrets one iota.

[GANGGREEN]

I suspect that every single response on this thread came from someone far above my pay grade as it relates to the collection, use and restoration of classic bamboo rods, and I guess that's why I'm posting. Different perspectives are important. I'm really, really grateful that there are people passionate about bamboo fly rods, because if there weren't, they likely would have gone away decades ago and people like me would know little or nothing about them and almost certainly would never get to fish them.

I do appreciate classics, whether it's a flintlock rifle, a great piece of wall art or something else. That said, I'm a blue collar guy too and I agree with many of you who say, if it's not to be used, then what's the point? If they aren't used, in many or most cases, they'll end up rotting in someone's attic.

I also acknowledge that I'm not serious enough about the hobby/sport to really afford decent original rods. Look, I have nice flintlock rifles, some really nice original paintings in my home, etc., but money isn't limitless for any of us and we all need to decide what hobbies are really important and where to spend our money. I don't know what "giving away" a restored rod amounts to (suspect it's still a good bit of money from my perspective for many/most of these old rods), but it's the one way that someone like me can afford one and take advantage.

I have two bamboo rods presently, one is from a small shop that I purchased second hand. It's cute, but I don't really like it; it just doesn't speak to me. One was a custom rod made and gifted to me by a new friend and based on some very limited time on the stream, I'm already in love with it. I'd like to add at least one more rod in the near future and a restored rod would certainly be considered, given my budget and interest level at the present time.

Don't know if any of this has any value to the board, just offering what may be a slightly uncommon or unusual opinion from someone who's not into these rods as many of you.

[Flykuni3]

My Divine Fairy after Sinclair's hand, great work. Am very glad he left the grip as it was, honorably stained from decades of use. In this case the rod had to be restored, it's now as close to factory as can be.

[tyghguy]

That is a beautiful Divine Fairy. I agree the cork looks better untouched. Great picture as well. This has been a very enjoyable thread for me. Thanks

[oquassa]

If you want to fish the rod then do what is necessary, even an extensive restoration like the beautiful Devine that Flykuni3 pictured. I think it is necessary to fish our rods to fully understand and appreciate them. If it is a "one of a kind" with historical value then do what is needed to prevent further age related deterioration or donate the rod to the American Museum of Fly Fishing so that they can preserve it.

[bearbutt]

My Divine Fairy after Sinclair's hand, great work. Am very glad he left the grip as it was, honorably stained from decades of use.

Au contraire: what looks like staining from use is a patina from non-use--just sitting in the tube. That's why the patina is even along the entire grip and reel seat--and the light sections you see are from actual usage. Use the rod and you'll see the patina wear off in area where you hand rubs on the grip.

This said, I agree that Sinclair did the right thing here--I've seen so many grips cleaned, it's painful.

bb

[Flykuni3]

Don't know if I can agree on that, some of my grips that were once clean are now stained like this from use. In some (Granger) cases, now ridged, not sure why Granger cork does that. A grip that looks similarly dark is an old SF Scott 802, dating back to when I was using graphite and cane.

[Tim Anderson]

Fish slime over years can help produce that varnished look.

Tim

[Seabowisha Salmo T]

Fish slime over years can help produce that varnished look.

Tim

hello, tim; slime of fish, angleworm or egg salad will definitely produce the look of varnish, but i have never found that the above do produce the same thick and flaking texture of varnish. ymmv.

regards, jim w

[kingstu]

It depends on who is refinishing a vintage rod. If Bob Summers
Is refinishing a PHY rod the value remains the same from what I have seen.
Stu

[16parachuteadams]

I only 'collect' one maker's rods and he and his company are long gone. The rods I'm most interested in are pre 1920 and without exception were used, a lot were loved to death. In the case of rods that are still in reasonably good condition I tend to leave well enough alone. Others that are deteriorated may receive anything from a drop of varnish on failing wraps to a full restoration by someone who knows what he is doing. Michael Sinclair, Steve Blake, Tom Maxwell, and Bob Summers have all done restorations for me that were true to the originals and worth every penny. My builder of choice advised adding a varnish overcoat yearly so "factory condition" is seldom a issue for me.

[David4Him]

Have to say, this string has been a most rewarding read and I appreciate the opinions of participants. I've come across several vintage rods myself and often I've restored them to original following a minimalist approach; but I also use my rods to fish and so tend toward wanting them to look like they once did in all their color and glory too. For me, its been very rewarding to be able to repair missing or frayed wraps and correct varnish that is dark and has bag rash and chips. A Granger Champion from the mid-30s that I restored is one of my favorites. When I got it, it was pitiful due to age storage and a lot of use, including some streamside guide repairs. Once complete, the bamboo was vibrant again and the 2 wraps I replaced and color toned turned out to match up perfectly to the originals. It is a pleasure to cast and enjoy its beauty.

David

[Doug K]

fascinating thread, thanks to all.

I've noticed a number of 'restored' cane rods on the auction site, which give restoration a bad name..

all my cane is low end, SB, Heddon, a Norm Thompson. The next step for all of these would have been tomato stakes, given the missing/loose ferrules and reel seats, rusty guides, etc etc. So I had no hesitation in doing my best to bring them back to fishing condition, and accept that they are basically worthless to anyone except me.

[Trains&Canes]

I started a similar thread a few years back regarding a 9' Leonard Tournament I had purchased from an ad in the Denver Post, long before the internet. It had two short tips, one a full four inches short. Guides and tip tops had been replaced with whatever was available, and those had been re-wrapped. I did some of the repairs myself, and was pleased with them at the time, but I always wondered what the rod would have been like a hundred years ago when it was made. I finally decided to send the rod to Tufts and Batson because I enjoy fishing their rods and admire their extraordinary level of craftsmanship. I let them decide what needed to be done, but I requested two new tips. They went to great lengths to find new guides and tip tops, true to the originals. The new tip tapers were extrapolated from the existing ones. They ended up slightly lighter (in color) than the originals, but if the varnish ages they may some day look identical. The new ferrules match and fit the mid section perfectly. The new wraps were color preserved to match the originals and re-varnished. They made new ferrule plugs, a new bag which holds all four tips, and a new tube large enough not to compress everything, with a Leonard label. It is beautiful, and I have enjoyed fishing it for two years since they did the work.

It is unlikely that I can sell the rod for what I put into it, but for me, that was never the point. I get to fish with a rod that has been enjoyed and cared for for over a hundred years. Whoever gets it next will hopefully enjoy it just as much, and then he can pass it on to his kids or another fly fisherman.

[Trains&Canes]

I have a couple more thoughts on restorations vs. originals. I am both a fly fisherman and a model railroader, and I have re-motored and re-geared many older model steam locomotives. If a tiny metal detail causes a short, I'm happy to bend it or simply chop it off. Some collectors would be horrified by this, but I want to see working models on my layout. Most of my trains come from after market sales, as do my fly rods. From them I have seen previous repairs and modifications, some of which are not so great, and others which really impress me. Buying a locomotive which does not work and transforming it into a smoothly operating model is deeply satisfying, and I have restored some flea market rods too. Even as an amateur craftsman, I am not afraid to repair a grip on a Paul Young Para 15, or to re-varnish wraps or small dings on a Maxwell Leonard, because I know that without these repairs, they will deteriorate more quickly on the stream.

As a musician, I know the value of a Stradivarius violin even though I do not play the violin. They are valued so highly, hundreds of times more than Gillums and Garrisons, that the artists that play them often have them on loan from wealthy owners. Do you think these instruments get repaired and maintained (or not) to sit in a museum, or to be heard for generations in the great concert halls of the world?

In any case, as an after market buyer...(and I suppose most collectables are purchased this way,) honest, truthful and complete disclosures represent to me what can be expected from a rod. They tell me about the integrity of the seller too!