Winston Leetle Fellers: Exactly what are they?
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Winston Leetle Fellers: Exactly what are they?
#1I'm curious about Winston's Leetle Fellers.
What makes a Leetle Feller a Lettle Feller? Is it inscribed on the blank as such? Were they built with different rod appointments? Did they run up to a certain serial number? Or is it simply any shorter length (<7 ft), light line (<4 wt) San Fran Era Winston?
Thanks in advance!
What makes a Leetle Feller a Lettle Feller? Is it inscribed on the blank as such? Were they built with different rod appointments? Did they run up to a certain serial number? Or is it simply any shorter length (<7 ft), light line (<4 wt) San Fran Era Winston?
Thanks in advance!
Winston Leetle Fellers: Exactly what are they?
#2Hey docbluedevil, Here is some interesting historical infomation about Winston "Leetle Fellers". Check this out http://flyfishingsg.probo...on=display&thread=729 . Hope this helps! I have a little 7'0" 2/2 Lettle feller that is awesome!!!!!!! Good luck
Best Regards,
KM
Best Regards,
KM
Last edited by mosquito on 11/11/08 17:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Winston Leetle Fellers: Exactly what are they?
#3Coincidentally, KM, I had been reading your exact link earlier which led me to the question of what exactly a Leetle Feller is.
It appears from the pics that there is not a "Leetle Feller" designation on the rod. Also the rod sounds like it's a Brackett/Montana rod. I always thought these "Leetle Fellers" were San Fran era rods.
I have a San Fran era 7'0" 4wt 2/2 as well; I wonder, "Do I have a 'Leetle Feller?" I've always thought that it would be fun to acquire one of those "Leetle Fellers;" maybe I've had one under my nose the whole time.
Whatever my rod is called, it's a blast.
It appears from the pics that there is not a "Leetle Feller" designation on the rod. Also the rod sounds like it's a Brackett/Montana rod. I always thought these "Leetle Fellers" were San Fran era rods.
I have a San Fran era 7'0" 4wt 2/2 as well; I wonder, "Do I have a 'Leetle Feller?" I've always thought that it would be fun to acquire one of those "Leetle Fellers;" maybe I've had one under my nose the whole time.
Whatever my rod is called, it's a blast.
Winston Leetle Fellers: Exactly what are they?
#4They were San Francisco era rods. Developed by Lew Stoner and Peter Schwab as described in Martin Keane's Classic Rods and Rodmakers. The fellow in the link quotes almost verbatim from this book.
As to being inked as "Leetle Fellers", I can't say. I think they are only identified by the serial number?
I'm sure the more knowledgable Winston collectors can speak to that.
Bob
As to being inked as "Leetle Fellers", I can't say. I think they are only identified by the serial number?
I'm sure the more knowledgable Winston collectors can speak to that.
Bob
Winston Leetle Fellers: Exactly what are they?
#5Leetle fellers were made both in S.F and by Tom Morgan & Glenn in MT. I am not sure what classifies one as a Leetle Feller as I have seen and owned rods that could have been marked as such and were not ( 6'3" 4 wt.). I have seen 7 ft. models that were marked as "Leetle Fellers". So, I can add a little from my personal experience but can't answer your question completely.
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Winston Leetle Fellers: Exactly what are they?
#6When I was hanging out in the Bay Area and at the San Francisco Winston shop in the 1970's, the "Leetle Fellers" included six rods from 5 1/2-feet to 7 1/2-feet in length weighing from 1 3/4 oz. to 3 1/8 oz. for DT 3 and DT 4 lines. They were one-tip rods but a second tip could be ordered.
To quote the Winston catalog from the era:
"These beautiful and delicate creations of the rodbuilder's art are becoming more popular with each passing year. We first built this series of ultra light, bamboo fly rods for angling author Peter J. Schwab in the early 1930's. Pete tagged them "leetle fellers", a term so descriptive, we have used it ever since. Leetle Fellers are specialized tools for only the most skillful fly-fishermen. They are designed to make short, accurate casts on small streams where extreme delicacy is desired. With a #3 or #4 double tapered line and long, fine leaders they will drop a tiny dry fly on smooth water, up to 45 feet away, with a loving caress."
LEETLE FELLER specifications: Two-piece construction, one tip; skeleton cork reel seat with aluminum hood and locking ring, carbaloy stripping guide, hard chrome, stainless snake guides and top. Partitioned cloth bag and aluminum tube.
"Other models available on special order".
Oh yeah, they were priced at $150. An extra tip was $55.
Regards,
Flyman
To quote the Winston catalog from the era:
"These beautiful and delicate creations of the rodbuilder's art are becoming more popular with each passing year. We first built this series of ultra light, bamboo fly rods for angling author Peter J. Schwab in the early 1930's. Pete tagged them "leetle fellers", a term so descriptive, we have used it ever since. Leetle Fellers are specialized tools for only the most skillful fly-fishermen. They are designed to make short, accurate casts on small streams where extreme delicacy is desired. With a #3 or #4 double tapered line and long, fine leaders they will drop a tiny dry fly on smooth water, up to 45 feet away, with a loving caress."
LEETLE FELLER specifications: Two-piece construction, one tip; skeleton cork reel seat with aluminum hood and locking ring, carbaloy stripping guide, hard chrome, stainless snake guides and top. Partitioned cloth bag and aluminum tube.
"Other models available on special order".
Oh yeah, they were priced at $150. An extra tip was $55.
Regards,
Flyman
Last edited by Flyman615 on 11/12/08 06:10, edited 1 time in total.
Flyman615
"An undisturbed river is as perfect as we will ever know, every refractive slide of cold water a glimpse of eternity" - Thomas McGuane
"An undisturbed river is as perfect as we will ever know, every refractive slide of cold water a glimpse of eternity" - Thomas McGuane
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Winston Leetle Fellers: Exactly what are they?
#7Perhaps I should have been more specific in my previous post. The "Leetle Fellers" of the early 1970's included:
Length-----------Weight---------Line Size
5 1/2 ft.----------1 3/4 oz.--------DT3
6 ft.--------------2 oz.------------DT3
6 1/2 ft.----------2 1/8 oz.--------DT3
7 ft.--------------2 1/2 oz.--------DT3
7 ft.--------------2 5/8 oz.--------DT4
7 1/2 ft.----------3 1/8 oz.--------DT4
I cannot recall any of the "Leetle Fellers" being marked as such, but it was 35 years ago.
I hope this helps!
Regards again,
Flyman
Length-----------Weight---------Line Size
5 1/2 ft.----------1 3/4 oz.--------DT3
6 ft.--------------2 oz.------------DT3
6 1/2 ft.----------2 1/8 oz.--------DT3
7 ft.--------------2 1/2 oz.--------DT3
7 ft.--------------2 5/8 oz.--------DT4
7 1/2 ft.----------3 1/8 oz.--------DT4
I cannot recall any of the "Leetle Fellers" being marked as such, but it was 35 years ago.
I hope this helps!
Regards again,
Flyman
Last edited by Flyman615 on 11/12/08 07:38, edited 1 time in total.
Flyman615
"An undisturbed river is as perfect as we will ever know, every refractive slide of cold water a glimpse of eternity" - Thomas McGuane
"An undisturbed river is as perfect as we will ever know, every refractive slide of cold water a glimpse of eternity" - Thomas McGuane
Winston Leetle Fellers: Exactly what are they?
#8In San Francisco, at least, Leetle Fellers weren't marked as such. They were just the half dozen or so specific models, designated by length and rod weight, that Winston called by that name. Winston also had rods called Light Trout and one or two of them were the same length and line weight as Leetle Fellers, but the rod weights were different. I think Leetle Fellers always had cork seats while Light Trout rods had the standard Winston black Bakelite seat (except for special order rods).
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Winston Leetle Fellers: Exactly what are they?
#9Hmm...my rod is a San Fran era ('70s) 7'0", 2 3/4 oz, 2/2 that matches the rod appointments mentioned above (with cork slide band reel seat), except that it came with 2 tips and weighs 2 3/4 oz. (rather than 2 1/2 or 2 5/8 oz). I wonder if my rod is one of the "other models on special request" or maybe it's a Light Trout rod model (as 16 pmd pointed out) with a customer request cork reel seat?Flyman615 wrote:the "Leetle Fellers" included six rods from 5 1/2-feet to 7 1/2-feet in length weighing from 1 3/4 oz. to 3 1/8 oz. for DT 3 and DT 4 lines. They were one-tip rods but a second tip could be ordered.
To quote the Winston catalog from the era:
LEETLE FELLER specifications: Two-piece construction, one tip; skeleton cork reel seat with aluminum hood and locking ring, carbaloy stripping guide, hard chrome, stainless snake guides and top. Partitioned cloth bag and aluminum tube.
"Other models available on special order". Regards,
Flyman
So if "Leetle Fellers" and Light Trout rods were offered at the same time, were they based on different tapers or just different rod appointments?
I emailed Annette McLean @ Winston about these rods and will post when she replies.
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Winston Leetle Fellers: Exactly what are they?
#10doc: The same SF Winston catalog I have from circa 1971-72 lists two 7- foot "Light Trout" rods weighing 2 7/8 and 3 ounces respectively. Both are listed as 5 wt. rods. All the "Light Trout" rods are listed as having the same grip/skeleton cork sliding band reel seat as the Leetle Fellers, and a photo on that page of a 7 1/2 foot "Light Trout" confirms that. Curiously, other "Light Trout" rods include five rods 6 1/2-feet or under for 4 and 5 wt. lines. Even a 5 1/2-footer for a 4 wt. None, however, are "Leetle Fellers" obviously, but I'll bet some have been re-sold as such. I realize this doesn't help positively identify your rod, but perhaps it was indeed a "special order".
Regards,
Flyman
Regards,
Flyman
Last edited by Flyman615 on 11/12/08 16:24, edited 1 time in total.
Flyman615
"An undisturbed river is as perfect as we will ever know, every refractive slide of cold water a glimpse of eternity" - Thomas McGuane
"An undisturbed river is as perfect as we will ever know, every refractive slide of cold water a glimpse of eternity" - Thomas McGuane
Winston Leetle Fellers: Exactly what are they?
#11Augmenting what's already been posted, here're scans from the 1974 Winston catalog...not that I know anything more on the subject than this.
Re. Peter Schwab, vol. 4 issue 3 of FFM contains an interview with him that's among the most interesting and provocative articles that FFM ever printed.
Re. Peter Schwab, vol. 4 issue 3 of FFM contains an interview with him that's among the most interesting and provocative articles that FFM ever printed.
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Winston Leetle Fellers: Exactly what are they?
#12slw:
Thanks for the scans of the 1970's Winston catalog which appears to be similar to mine.
BTW- I believe the SF Winston catalogs were used for several years with the "price sheet" insert being changed periodically. My price sheet, for example, is dated March 1, 1972.
I was going to ask my daughter to scan the catalog pages for me, but you beat me to it!
Thanks again.
Best,
Flyman
Thanks for the scans of the 1970's Winston catalog which appears to be similar to mine.
BTW- I believe the SF Winston catalogs were used for several years with the "price sheet" insert being changed periodically. My price sheet, for example, is dated March 1, 1972.
I was going to ask my daughter to scan the catalog pages for me, but you beat me to it!
Thanks again.
Best,
Flyman
Last edited by Flyman615 on 11/12/08 16:27, edited 1 time in total.
Flyman615
"An undisturbed river is as perfect as we will ever know, every refractive slide of cold water a glimpse of eternity" - Thomas McGuane
"An undisturbed river is as perfect as we will ever know, every refractive slide of cold water a glimpse of eternity" - Thomas McGuane
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Winston Leetle Fellers: Exactly what are they?
#13So someone asked me via PM, "Why weren't you buying Leetle Fellers in 1972 when they were cheap ( just $205 for a two-tipper)?" I can still "see" them displayed in the rack to my immediate left as I entered the door of the Winston shop on Third Street.
Well, as a USAF 2nd Lt. I was making $416 per month without flight pay. But I could afford a complete restoration by Doug Merrick of my Dad's Heddon 8 1/2-foot 2F--$35.00 including a new bag and tube. Those were the days!
Best again,
Flyman
Well, as a USAF 2nd Lt. I was making $416 per month without flight pay. But I could afford a complete restoration by Doug Merrick of my Dad's Heddon 8 1/2-foot 2F--$35.00 including a new bag and tube. Those were the days!
Best again,
Flyman
Last edited by Flyman615 on 11/12/08 17:09, edited 1 time in total.
Flyman615
"An undisturbed river is as perfect as we will ever know, every refractive slide of cold water a glimpse of eternity" - Thomas McGuane
"An undisturbed river is as perfect as we will ever know, every refractive slide of cold water a glimpse of eternity" - Thomas McGuane
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Winston Leetle Fellers: Exactly what are they?
#14By 1982/83, the Winston catalog was calling all the 3 and 4 weight rods (from 5 1/2' - 8') Light Trout Rods, and in the description, refer to them collectively as Leetle Fellers first built in the 30's for Schwab.
Basically, what they did by the 80's was drop the name "Leetle Fellers" if favor of "Light Trout" Rods for 3 and 4 wts..... and what were "Light Trout" Rods, became, with a few other models, "Trout" Rods. I don't recall seing any labelled "Little Feller" on the rod, but they may exist. Mostly its a name for what would be 3 and light 4 wts rods. today...
I had Glenn Brackett build me a 7 1/2' Leetle Feller (old taper I was told at the time) in 1989 that worked out at 3 oz and was rated, in Glenn's estimation, as a DT-4. It is marked 3 oz on the rod and has a teak insert. To me it handles any 4 line well or 5 weight line in close. I used it today as a matter of fact for some BWO fishing and it has been in my possession for 19 years and fished every fall. I am glad I listened to Glenn about this taper, since he said there were others that were light 4's and others true 5's, but the one he made this rod on was his favorite 4 at the time and an old Winston taper. Obviously I'm biased, but I feel he was right.
Basically, what they did by the 80's was drop the name "Leetle Fellers" if favor of "Light Trout" Rods for 3 and 4 wts..... and what were "Light Trout" Rods, became, with a few other models, "Trout" Rods. I don't recall seing any labelled "Little Feller" on the rod, but they may exist. Mostly its a name for what would be 3 and light 4 wts rods. today...
I had Glenn Brackett build me a 7 1/2' Leetle Feller (old taper I was told at the time) in 1989 that worked out at 3 oz and was rated, in Glenn's estimation, as a DT-4. It is marked 3 oz on the rod and has a teak insert. To me it handles any 4 line well or 5 weight line in close. I used it today as a matter of fact for some BWO fishing and it has been in my possession for 19 years and fished every fall. I am glad I listened to Glenn about this taper, since he said there were others that were light 4's and others true 5's, but the one he made this rod on was his favorite 4 at the time and an old Winston taper. Obviously I'm biased, but I feel he was right.
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Winston Leetle Fellers: Exactly what are they?
#15Thanks for the info guys, especially regarding the scans of the catalog. I knew I could count on ya'll!
It looks like the "Leetle Fellers" and "Light Trout" rods were based on different tapers, with the Light Trout rods being "slightly more powerful."
Well, my Winston 7.0 ft 2 3/4 oz rod fits neither the Leetle Feller or Light Trout rod specs noted in the catalogs. Hopefully, Winston will be able to tell me which category my rod fits into. What I do know is that I prefer this rod with a DT4.
Anyone here have the opportunity of fishing/casting/owning both and have some observations?
It looks like the "Leetle Fellers" and "Light Trout" rods were based on different tapers, with the Light Trout rods being "slightly more powerful."
Well, my Winston 7.0 ft 2 3/4 oz rod fits neither the Leetle Feller or Light Trout rod specs noted in the catalogs. Hopefully, Winston will be able to tell me which category my rod fits into. What I do know is that I prefer this rod with a DT4.
Anyone here have the opportunity of fishing/casting/owning both and have some observations?
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Winston Leetle Fellers: Exactly what are they?
#16Yes, circa 75, that's the case. The Leetle Fellers were the 3's and 4's while the Light Trouts were only very short 4's and 5's, which are more powerful. They were offered at the same time, but the same length and line weight were offered in one class or the other. Its only a name.
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Winston Leetle Fellers: Exactly what are they?
#17I have a Brackett built 7 ft 3 piece. It is labelled on the shaft 7' 2 3/4 oz #3. Beautiful rod that casts a DT 3 like a dream. What do I have? I assume the rods discussed in this thread are 2 pc. I spoke to Glen about it and he looked up the serial number and told me that he had built it and also gave me the name of the original owner which, of course I have forgotten.
Nodeless Light Line Cane Rods
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Winston Leetle Fellers: Exactly what are they?
#18oldfishbrain - that is a model that Glenn really seems to like... IIRC, it is the rod he fishes in the video "Winston Waters" ---- when he fished with McGuane on the Boulder, I think.... Very nice...
There is one for sale on yabE now.
There is one for sale on yabE now.
Last edited by creakycane on 11/13/08 15:18, edited 1 time in total.
Winston Leetle Fellers: Exactly what are they?
#19Hi Guys, During my 'Haight' scene 1965-67 I'd go to Winston's when they were downtown on a street that, I think, paralleled Market St. It was an old store front with the 12' ceiling. There was a long glass counter on the right with nothing in it, but on it would be Polly Rosborough flies. Oh, maybe there was some stuff in it, but what? There was a partition at the back of the 'showroom' behind which I had,at the time, no idea what went on. Work. On the left along the wall was a rod rack with like 5 foot or so rods on the left and 'Rising from the Plains' through the foothills to the peak of Mount Whitney [you get the pcture, eh?] on the right were the famed steelhead rods of 9', 9 1/2', !0', etc. It impressed me, and impresses me to this day. They were all single tip and all $100. I'd see guys in the well at the Golden Gate Park casting pools using 'shooting heads' and Winston and Fenwick rods practicing for the Russian, Eel or Klamath. It was a beautiful time. Jay Edwards
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Winston Leetle Fellers: Exactly what are they?
#20bluejayee, thanks for taking us for a walk into the San Fran Winston shop.