intervals of intermediate wrappings on FET

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Seabowisha Salmo T
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intervals of intermediate wrappings on FET

#81

Post by Seabowisha Salmo T »

thomasrodco wrote:I have documentation that indicates that the diamond stamp was used in 1936.
Steve Campbell.
  
hello Steve,

thank you for the information.  can you determine whether this documentation concerning the diamond stamp refers to a) one rod, b) more than one rod, or c) all rods fabricated in 1936?

highest regards, jim winfree

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Seabowisha Salmo T
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intervals of intermediate wrappings on FET

#82

Post by Seabowisha Salmo T »

hello again stoneflyer,

my nine foot streamer rod(marked "triangle" on the butt) has very similar coloration to yours. the ferrules are 17/64 and 11/64.  after as best examination with a sixteen power loupe as i can see, i believe the color is in the finish.

just an opinion, and i am often wrong.

highest regards,
Last edited by Seabowisha Salmo T on 02/19/10 04:59, edited 1 time in total.

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North country brookie
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intervals of intermediate wrappings on FET

#83

Post by North country brookie »


Jim,

If you go to the link here, there is more discussion of Thomas numbers.  I also see that Housatonic Quill posted another Thomas with a 3 stamped on the butt, same as my Special.

http://clarksclassicflyro...eply/120081#reply-120081

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Seabowisha Salmo T
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intervals of intermediate wrappings on FET

#84

Post by Seabowisha Salmo T »

hello again ncb,

many thanks, jim w

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Seabowisha Salmo T
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intervals of intermediate wrappings on FET

#85

Post by Seabowisha Salmo T »

hello all,

   i am certain there are some more owners of f e thomas rods which have intermediate wraps who have not yet read this thread or have not included the information requested by norimasa.  perhaps enough will respond that some order may be found in the confusion.

   many thanks, jim w
Last edited by Seabowisha Salmo T on 06/26/10 04:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Seabowisha Salmo T
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intervals of intermediate wrappings on FET

#86

Post by Seabowisha Salmo T »

considering that f e thomas "bait": casting rods have the same number stamped on their butt caps or reel seats as the "fly" rods  causes me to revise my opinion that the number could represent a model; but does lead me to believe the number represents a common taper with "fly" casting rods.

regards, jim w

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Seabowisha Salmo T
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intervals of intermediate wrappings on FET

#87

Post by Seabowisha Salmo T »

stewart castle post #42 has great information concerning the "signature" wraps.

regards, jim w

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Jacktati
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intervals of intermediate wrappings on FET

#88

Post by Jacktati »

Hi Seabowisha Salmo, thanks for the info. I understand that my rod would be - if note a banty - a pre 1936 rod.

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Seabowisha Salmo T
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intervals of intermediate wrappings on FET

#89

Post by Seabowisha Salmo T »

Jacktati wrote:Hi Seabowisha Salmo, thanks for the info. I understand that my rod would be - if note a banty - a pre 1936 rod.
well, at least a 1937 rod.  Image

my family name, before katherine di medici hounded them from france to england, was "commeau". so i claim some small knowledge of the Gallic mind.  it is my opinion that your rod has not been shortened in the butt, nor experienced a ritz bycicle accident tune up.  i believe the owner did not care for the cork supplied on the rod by f e thomas, and had it changed to a much higher grade of cork which was not at that time available for export from spain, portugal or france and probably not even known to exist by fred thomas, but was reserved for champaigne bottle corks; probably from his own cork trees. this could be determined by querying sociedade corticas nationale in lisbon.

  i have never had the nerve to remove the butt cap from a(n) f e thomas rod, and have requested information from anyone who has done so, to determine whether f e thomas rod butt shafts extended completely through the handle and reel seat or was cut short inside a spacer as were many other rods made during the same period.

i believe this to be the case, and suspect the cane WAS extended through the spacer thereby causing the butt of the rod to be approximately two (2) inches short of it's original length.

if so, you would have a RARE original seven (7) foot rod with only the spacer (reel seat) and the superior cork handle being not fully original.

just my humble opinion,

highest regards, jim w

EDIT:  thanks to sanspareil, (on the appraisals page, a strange f e thomas rod) we have confirmation that at least some f e thomas rods did have the butt shaft stopping short of the buttcap by approximately two (2) inches.  so i surmise the shaft may have not been shortened.
Last edited by Seabowisha Salmo T on 10/20/10 06:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Jacktati
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intervals of intermediate wrappings on FET

#90

Post by Jacktati »

Hi Jim, I'm gonn'a drink a little poire de william to celebrate that ! Cheers.
Well so I'm the very proud owner of a beautifull 1937 seven footer FET witch seems to fit with my WF3 silk line ;  can't wait to give a try to this gear by a calm day on a low summer stream...
For any interest :
- all parts are dead straight ;
- both tips are perfectly matching with 59 intermediates + 6 english heavy snake's wraps + long tang tiptop wrap (1,6 inch) + 3 close signature wraps + ferrule wrap ;
- butt has 32 intermediates , grip is 5 inches long, reel seat is 3 10/16 inch long from the base of the butt cap to the upper ring.
- male ferrules diameter is 4,33 mm, tip diameter over varnish is 1,6 mm just below tip top wrap, 4,25 mm just above the ferrule.
If needed I could give you the mesurement 5" per 5" without varnish during restauration work
best
J.Louis

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Seabowisha Salmo T
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Re: intervals of intermediate wrappings on FET

#91

Post by Seabowisha Salmo T »

hello all,

here are several examples of f e thomas folk art intermediate wrappings, bumped to the front for your enjoyment.

regards, jim w

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Seabowisha Salmo T
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Re: intervals of intermediate wrappings on FET

#92

Post by Seabowisha Salmo T »

cwfly wrote:Short Tip, I have no confidence about whether the stamps were applied to the rods before or after the butt caps were mounted. I remain of the very loose opinion that there is something about the limited cluster of numbers at the same time understanding that we have a very small sample of rods from a pretty good output. But is it then a random cluster? Single digits, no teens, and mostly 30's. No I understand that when Leon took over he used shop logs with a coding system that indicates when the rod was made and, I believe, some details about the rod to whom it was then first sold. This gives the maker a tracking system. Might Leon have been trying to improve on a much less detailed earlier system that his father used? I thought for a bit that the stamps could relate to retailers, but I now don't necessarily think that information would require such a stamp. I also thought the stamp could relate to a taper/pattern book, but the same number does not seem to show up on the same length rods. The only person who would need to know what the stamp meant, in the end, was Fred Thomas and then only for two reasons I can presently think of. One, if someone saw one of his rods and wanted it duplicated. But I don't think that works. The numbers just do not seem that detailed. The other reason I speculate about is whether, given the limited number of numbers, they relate to the identity of a person(s) in the shop who performed some important task on the rod and, should it fail or otherwise need repair, the person could readily be identified. Beats the hell out of me. Any other pure speculation is welcome. Charlie
amen to that, charlie,

bamboo rods without intermediate wrappings just do not have the mojo.

are there any more respondants to this excellent thread?

regards, jim w

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Re: intervals of intermediate wrappings on FET

#93

Post by jeffkn1 »

I'm not convinced that there was any relationship between the number on the butt cap and anything else about the rod other than the year it was made. Wrapping was done by several women. Trade versions could be spec'd with special wrapping but other than that I think the wrappers adhered to whatever the conventional pattern was at the time.

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Seabowisha Salmo T
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Re: intervals of intermediate wrappings on FET

#94

Post by Seabowisha Salmo T »

jeffkn1 wrote:I'm not convinced that there was any relationship between the number on the butt cap and anything else about the rod other than the year it was made. Wrapping was done by several women. Trade versions could be spec'd with special wrapping but other than that I think the wrappers adhered to whatever the conventional pattern was at the time.
hello jeff,

year of making would seem logical, but i can find no numbers other than 0 through 9, one or two 2 2, and some 3 0's; no teens forties fiftys, et c.
it appears that fred thomas may have set some limits (perhaps thread colors) but left the rest to the wrappers.
thanks, jim w

a recent posting by hatch has provided information on the fourth of four f e thomas rods stamped "4" on the buttcap which have identical properties of length of cork seat, overall length of seat and grip, diameter of shaft at winding check, and ferrule sizes. more information is required for evidence before a court of law, but we are getting closer and closer to the meaning of the single digit stamps.

regards, jim w

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Seabowisha Salmo T
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Re: intervals of intermediate wrappings on FET

#95

Post by Seabowisha Salmo T »

bringing this pertinent study forward for mike :) .

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wineslob
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Re: intervals of intermediate wrappings on FET

#96

Post by wineslob »

Having just finished "restoring" (as best this amateur can) a pre 1909 8.5 ft. Dirigo, I hate intermediates.

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