JPMarci wrote:I am going to post these two rods and then spend the next hour reading the previous posts to see the connection.
Rod #1 9'0" Special - green wraps tipped red with full intermediates. Cork seat with tapered cigar grip. Cap is stamped 4 with three circles. The length of the seat and cork is 9" with the cane measured at 0.359 above the hook keeper. The ferrules are 0.260 and 0.170. The signature wrap is GRG RRRRRR GRG.
Rod #2 9'0" Diringo - red wraps with full intermediates. Metal seat with tapered cigar grip. Cap is stamped 3 with three circles. The length of the seat and cork is 9" with the cane measured at 0.364 above the hook keeper. The ferrules are 0.260 and 0.170. The signature wrap is RRRRRRRRRRR.
hello john,
the information you provided corresponds with that for the four other no.4 rods we have measured.
the information on the no.3 was particularly helpful as i had no other listing of those particular measurements.
when and if a preponderance of data may be compiled, i will present a chart or spread sheet containing the results (anomalies, if any, included).
note: errors and transpositions of information are a result of the hardware or software!
thanks again, regards, jim w
Both rods are medium/slow 4/5 weights. Now I will red the posts.
Regards
John
f e thomas single no. rod current --- measuring no. 4 rods
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Re: f e thomas single no. rod information requested, please
#121Re: f e thomas single no. rod information requested, please
#122Good Morning Jim,
My FET is a 8-1/2 foot 4-3/4 oz. with intermediate wraps and a total cork handle like Bull Dogs. The following are the specifications:
9 inch cork handle
30 marked on the center of the butt cap
Distance from keeper to stripper = 21-1/4 inches
OD male ferrules 16/64 and 10/64
Butt has 18 intermediates, 1 inch separation
Mid has 32 intermediates, 3/4 - 1/2 inch separations, 5 guide wraps
Tip has 49 intermediates, 1/2 - 5/8 inch separations, 5 guid wraps
Have a great day. -tomVT
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Re: f e thomas single no. rod information requested, please
#123hello tomvt,tomvt wrote:Good Morning Jim,
My FET is a 8-1/2 foot 4-3/4 oz. with intermediate wraps and a total cork handle like Bull Dogs. The following are the specifications:
9 inch cork handle
30 marked on the center of the butt cap
Distance from keeper to stripper = 21-1/4 inches
OD male ferrules 16/64 and 10/64
Butt has 18 intermediates, 1 inch separation
Mid has 32 intermediates, 3/4 - 1/2 inch separations, 5 guide wraps
Tip has 49 intermediates, 1/2 - 5/8 inch separations, 5 guid wraps
Have a great day. -tomVT
welcome to another pilgrim on the journey to peace, prosperity and the american way.
this is the first information i have recorded from a two digit rod. this oddesy has covered four years of compiling data, and we have gone down several blind trails, but i am patient.
many thanks for the information and for contributing.
regards, jim w
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Re: f e thomas single no. rod information requested, please
#124Hello, Jim
Very fortuitous that TomVT just posted a Thomas rod with a number 30 on the butt. I have another rod with the same number-- 30-- on the butt cap.
However, my rod is entirely different in every conceivable way than TomVT's. I didn't count the intermediates because I'm 72 years old and don't have time to waste on the quirks of Fred's rod wrappers. Here are the specs:
9'0" Special, 3/2, in original green sleeve, in original aluminum tube
cap and ring cedar barreled reel seat
reel seat diameter: 11/16
reel seat length: 3 3/4
cork grip length: 6 1/2
ferrules: 17 & 11
fast dry fly action, with a nice number 30 on the bottom of the cap.
You also have specs on rods with a number 8, so here is another one:
9'6" Wm. Read & Sons, F.E. Thomas, Maker, 3/2, original canvas bag with original tip case.
full metal reel seat
reel seat diameter: 3/4
reel seat length: 3 5/8
cork grip length: 5 1/8
ferrules: 17 & 11
nice well-delineated 8 on the bottom of the metal seat, along with the usual "target."
I have specs on 6 other fly rods, plus 5 bait-trolling and bait casting rods. If you want to PM me with your email address, I'll send you a PDF of the specifications. Frankly, I can see no common thread indicating Fred Thomas used these numbers for the intentions you are searching for. As such, I have a busy schedule and this will be my last post on this thread until something positive comes from your search. I wish you good luck.
Very fortuitous that TomVT just posted a Thomas rod with a number 30 on the butt. I have another rod with the same number-- 30-- on the butt cap.
However, my rod is entirely different in every conceivable way than TomVT's. I didn't count the intermediates because I'm 72 years old and don't have time to waste on the quirks of Fred's rod wrappers. Here are the specs:
9'0" Special, 3/2, in original green sleeve, in original aluminum tube
cap and ring cedar barreled reel seat
reel seat diameter: 11/16
reel seat length: 3 3/4
cork grip length: 6 1/2
ferrules: 17 & 11
fast dry fly action, with a nice number 30 on the bottom of the cap.
You also have specs on rods with a number 8, so here is another one:
9'6" Wm. Read & Sons, F.E. Thomas, Maker, 3/2, original canvas bag with original tip case.
full metal reel seat
reel seat diameter: 3/4
reel seat length: 3 5/8
cork grip length: 5 1/8
ferrules: 17 & 11
nice well-delineated 8 on the bottom of the metal seat, along with the usual "target."
I have specs on 6 other fly rods, plus 5 bait-trolling and bait casting rods. If you want to PM me with your email address, I'll send you a PDF of the specifications. Frankly, I can see no common thread indicating Fred Thomas used these numbers for the intentions you are searching for. As such, I have a busy schedule and this will be my last post on this thread until something positive comes from your search. I wish you good luck.
"He started off in the wood-turning trade."
Profile on Fred Thomas, 1906
Author:
Successful Shark Fishing (1996)
Classic & Antique Fly Fishing Tackle (1997, 2002)
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)
Profile on Fred Thomas, 1906
Author:
Successful Shark Fishing (1996)
Classic & Antique Fly Fishing Tackle (1997, 2002)
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)
Re: f e thomas single no. rod information requested, please
#125For what it's worth a 9' 3/2 Special Mahogany with #4 on the butt just sold on an on line auction site.
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Re: f e thomas single no. rod information requested, please
#126hello hatch,hatch wrote:For what it's worth a 9' 3/2 Special Mahogany with #4 on the butt just sold on an on line auction site.
good of you to notice this one. it may be one which i have not noticed before. no. 4 and no. 5 are my favorites of the rods. i do not have a three, but they may be close in configuration to the fours as per recent posting.
highest regards, jim w
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Re: f e thomas single no. rod information requested, please
#127bumping the thread,
may be jake on the lake will add information on his no 2 rod; and any others who wish to participate in this research project,as well.
thanks in advance,
jim w
may be jake on the lake will add information on his no 2 rod; and any others who wish to participate in this research project,as well.
thanks in advance,
jim w
Re: f e thomas single no. rod information requested, please
#128Hi Jim,
I stick by my guess - The numbers are a sort of finisher's mark, to say who completed the bulk of the work, or who inspected the process. Could you please post a list of the numbers you have collected so far? Thank you.
I stick by my guess - The numbers are a sort of finisher's mark, to say who completed the bulk of the work, or who inspected the process. Could you please post a list of the numbers you have collected so far? Thank you.
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Re: f e thomas single no. rod information requested, please
#129hello again teter,Short Tip wrote:Hi Jim,
I stick by my guess - The numbers are a sort of finisher's mark, to say who completed the bulk of the work, or who inspected the process. Could you please post a list of the numbers you have collected so far? Thank you.
i believe i have all numbers and symbols except a two, was hoping jake would supply one.
i am not at home, am in atlanta. i have a heart procedure tuesday next, when i am able, i will review and post any relevant information i may have. i will say again, i do not have nearly enough data to make even a preliminary call concerning these numbers. i suspect the forum and the internet information stream may be disappearing. a lot of people have responded to this request through the years, and i am most grateful to them.
regards, jim w
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Re: f e thomas single no. rod information requested, please
#130hello again shorttip and other friends,
two months in i c and rehab and it has been definitively proven that i do, indeed, have a heart; just not a very good one. my no. two daughter has shanghaied me and i find myself, as usual, far from my notes and f e thomas rods. eventually, i will do some kind of spreadsheet, but for the next few months will be concentrating on breathing. i do believe that all information in my possession is in these several f e thomas threads. i would need much more information than i now have. i have come to no earth shattering conclusions concerning the numbers on the butts of the single digit rods. i would need much more hard data and can not see where such might be forthcoming. but i live in hope.
highest regards, jim w
two months in i c and rehab and it has been definitively proven that i do, indeed, have a heart; just not a very good one. my no. two daughter has shanghaied me and i find myself, as usual, far from my notes and f e thomas rods. eventually, i will do some kind of spreadsheet, but for the next few months will be concentrating on breathing. i do believe that all information in my possession is in these several f e thomas threads. i would need much more information than i now have. i have come to no earth shattering conclusions concerning the numbers on the butts of the single digit rods. i would need much more hard data and can not see where such might be forthcoming. but i live in hope.
highest regards, jim w
Re: f e thomas single no. rod information requested, please
#131Jim,
#1. Get well and relax;
#2. Don't worry about the numbers.
#1. Get well and relax;
#2. Don't worry about the numbers.
Re: f e thomas single no. rod information requested, please
#132I second that - Get well soon.cwfly wrote:Jim,
#1. Get well and relax;
#2. Don't worry about the numbers.
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Re: f e thomas single no. rod information requested, please
#133hello again cwfly and short tip,cwfly wrote:Jim,
#1. Get well and relax;
#2. Don't worry about the numbers.
thank you for concerns, just spent another two days in i c; at least i escaped from there for the holiday!
i am being watched like a hawk, they are concerned about possible blood clots.
went with no.2 daughter to blue ridge ga . her second trout fly rod excursion. she hooked four, landed three in 15 to 18 inch range -rainbows- on brown bivisible; using an eight and one-half foot f e thomas rod and 3 and one-eighth inch uniqua (horshoe latch); silk line makes it all easy.
visited with bill oyster in his shop. he makes very, very nice rods! he has a new salt water line of rods.
highest regards, jim w
Re: f e thomas single no. rod information requested, please
#134Jim, the fishing has got to help you feel better, especially with an FET!
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Re: f e thomas single no. rod information requested, please
#135number length model reel handle stripper ferrule
on butt number seat to butt size
4 ... 8' 0" ... spl ... 3 5/16 ... 5 5/8 ... 27 1/4 ... 0.25
4 ... 9' 0" ... dir ... 3 5/8..... 5 3/8 ... 31 ... ... 0.26
4 ... 9' 0" ... spl ... 3 3/8.... 5 5/8 ... 30 1/2 ... 0.25
5 ... 10' 0" .. spl ... 3 3/4 .... 6 3/8 ... 24 ... ... 0.28
5 ... 10' 0' .. spl ... 3 3/4 .... 5 3/4 ... 24 ... ... 0.28
6 or 9 8' 6" spl 3 5/8 6 3/4 29 1/2 0.27
6 or 9 9' 6" spl 3 5/8 6 1/2 24 1/4 0.31
6 or 9 9' 6" spl 3 5/8 6 1/2
0 9 '0" spl 3 1/2 6 24 1/4 0.30
0 9' 6" spl 3 1/2 5 24 1/4 0.30
diamond 9' 0" spl 3 1/2 5 3/4 30 0.35
http://imgur.com/P9YTWV8
this does not display conveniently, i should put it in MS office, i suppose!
regards, jim w
on butt number seat to butt size
4 ... 8' 0" ... spl ... 3 5/16 ... 5 5/8 ... 27 1/4 ... 0.25
4 ... 9' 0" ... dir ... 3 5/8..... 5 3/8 ... 31 ... ... 0.26
4 ... 9' 0" ... spl ... 3 3/8.... 5 5/8 ... 30 1/2 ... 0.25
5 ... 10' 0" .. spl ... 3 3/4 .... 6 3/8 ... 24 ... ... 0.28
5 ... 10' 0' .. spl ... 3 3/4 .... 5 3/4 ... 24 ... ... 0.28
6 or 9 8' 6" spl 3 5/8 6 3/4 29 1/2 0.27
6 or 9 9' 6" spl 3 5/8 6 1/2 24 1/4 0.31
6 or 9 9' 6" spl 3 5/8 6 1/2
0 9 '0" spl 3 1/2 6 24 1/4 0.30
0 9' 6" spl 3 1/2 5 24 1/4 0.30
diamond 9' 0" spl 3 1/2 5 3/4 30 0.35
http://imgur.com/P9YTWV8
this does not display conveniently, i should put it in MS office, i suppose!
regards, jim w
Last edited by Seabowisha Salmo T on 07/06/17 18:24, edited 5 times in total.
Re: f e thomas single no. rod information requested, please
#136Hi Jim, I find that the number 30 appears quite often, and I have another rod marked 22. I'll get a quick list of mine together here shortly, though right now I seem to have a lot of post '37 rods on hand.
The diamond was, I believe, one of the first year marks in the new system - It means 1937 IIRC.
I had a chance to look at the galley proofs for the FET Book last weekend. It's going to be epic. I understand that Bob Stewart has his own theory about the numbers, but I did not look at that in the forthcoming book.
The diamond was, I believe, one of the first year marks in the new system - It means 1937 IIRC.
I had a chance to look at the galley proofs for the FET Book last weekend. It's going to be epic. I understand that Bob Stewart has his own theory about the numbers, but I did not look at that in the forthcoming book.
Re: f e thomas single no. rod information requested, please
#137Hey, I'm back! What a time machine ride.
I've become pretty confident that Bob Stewart and Jerry Girard's ideas about the butt cap numbers are correct. AJ Campbell convinced me pretty well by ballparking the dates of a number of FETs without looking at the number - His guesses were within 3-5 years every time. So, to recap - 1-9 represent 1911 to 1919 (I don't know if there's a zero), 20-29 represent 1920-29, and 30-35 represent the rest, when we get to the rectangle and diamond marks, then Leon's ledger. I'm not sure we'll ever do better than that explanation.
I've become pretty confident that Bob Stewart and Jerry Girard's ideas about the butt cap numbers are correct. AJ Campbell convinced me pretty well by ballparking the dates of a number of FETs without looking at the number - His guesses were within 3-5 years every time. So, to recap - 1-9 represent 1911 to 1919 (I don't know if there's a zero), 20-29 represent 1920-29, and 30-35 represent the rest, when we get to the rectangle and diamond marks, then Leon's ledger. I'm not sure we'll ever do better than that explanation.
Short Tip wrote:Hi Jim, I find that the number 30 appears quite often, and I have another rod marked 22. I'll get a quick list of mine together here shortly, though right now I seem to have a lot of post '37 rods on hand.
The diamond was, I believe, one of the first year marks in the new system - It means 1937 IIRC.
I had a chance to look at the galley proofs for the FET Book last weekend. It's going to be epic. I understand that Bob Stewart has his own theory about the numbers, but I did not look at that in the forthcoming book.
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Re: f e thomas single no. rod information requested, please
#138I have a F E Thomas Special 9', 3/2 which Steve Campbell told me was a pre 1935 specimen. I have several images but I am unable to display those images on PB at present. I got an email from them yesterday that since I was using their site to post to a 3rd Party (our forum) website I would have to upgrade..As yet I have not been successful in paying their fees for the basic service, although the payment for the no ad upgrade did go thru .. Currently working with their folks to see if we can iron that out. It costs $60 for 52G annual storage..that is about a jillion images..400 pics per gig or 28000 images..so not really a jillion..or that's what they say..not sure what resolution they support...anyway that is another story..all in all that's not a bad deal!!
I have taken several images of the rod which show the red wraps and beige or yellow tipping wraps, red intermediates, NS slide band with NS butt cap. The hook keeper is very small and is built in to the winding stop. The butt cap has 2 concentric rings around the number 4.
I will leave these links and hope they go live once we get the payment straightened out!!
If there is interest please PM me with your email address and I will send the images directly to you.
Nathan
Solo8232000
I have taken several images of the rod which show the red wraps and beige or yellow tipping wraps, red intermediates, NS slide band with NS butt cap. The hook keeper is very small and is built in to the winding stop. The butt cap has 2 concentric rings around the number 4.
I will leave these links and hope they go live once we get the payment straightened out!!
If there is interest please PM me with your email address and I will send the images directly to you.
Nathan
Solo8232000
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Re: f e thomas single no. rod information requested, please
#140Thank you so much!!! The rod came to me in really good shape but I sent it to Steve Campbell at F E Thomas to get some minor repairs made..I am putting it on the water this coming week for the first time..Can hardly wait..98 y/o!! Wow!! I am blessed!!
Nathan
solo8232000
Nathan
solo8232000