PHY Perfectionist Action

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quashnet
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PHY Perfectionist Action

#21

Post by quashnet »

On page 6 of the circa 1954-55 PHY Co. catalog (photo of Ned Jewett on the front cover, holding an Atlantic salmon), Paul Young stated four rodmaking considerations that guided his work:

"The critical selection of cane, the precision with which it is worked, the perfection of glueing and, equally important, the design of each model for a specific use...."

An illustrated essay titled "How the Finest Rods are Made" reviewed Young's efforts in these four areas. Regarding the cane, Young was looking for "dense thick-walled butts, from which all rods we turn out, even the little ones, are made." Young stated that "our importers receive orders only for extra select, 2-1/4" - 2-1/2" butts, 9'3" long, which are infinitely better than the cane imported in quantity and in general use." Perhaps a rodmaker or angling historian could say whether these culms truly were "infinitely better," but clearly they were quite good. I believe that even within that stockpile of cane, some culms were rated better than others. Bob Summers told me that my Martha Marie (built by Summers) was a special order for an important client, and so the best cane in the shop was used, implying that some culms were judged to be better than others.

But the best material in the world was of no use without the tools and the skills to work it. It is true that "Mr. Young's hand may have been slightly lighter or heavier on any give day." Aside from random variances, it is also true, as I have already pointed out, that Young kept experimenting with tapers while retaining model names. He seems also to have varied rod designs for clients with specific needs; for example, he reduced weight and modified tapers to try to get better results for clients with shoulder bursitus or other physical challenges.
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canerodscom
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PHY Perfectionist Action

#22

Post by canerodscom »

Interesting too, that it is widely rumored that the infamous "ring of fire" was designed not only to temper the cane, but also to disguise certain cosmetic blemishes. All manor of variables result in different feelings rods; tapers, glues, heat treating, cane density, phase of the moon, and the list goes on. Please don't take this as a criticism of Young rods. I just think the mojo is the chief factor in what makes them so special.

Harry

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PHY Perfectionist Action

#23

Post by BobB »

My comments were in no way proffered to disparage Mr. Young. Just some thoughts as to why one of his Perfectionists may cast somewhat differently from another of the same make. I think Quashnet and Harry have adressed this most admirably!

Bob

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Bucky
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PHY Perfectionist Action

#24

Post by Bucky »

I have never had the opporunity to mike a rod built by Mr. Young's hand but I have been told that the dimensions are all over the board on the rods. (Which I would guess is the case on many cane rods. No disrespect to Paul Young rods here.)

Eric

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quashnet
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#25

Post by quashnet »

Bob: It never occurred to me that your comments were in any way disparaging. I personally doubt that the "ring of fire" was meant to hide defects in Young cane, but others are free to disagree. I base my belief on the fact that Young continued to offer blonde cane rods in his 1948 catalog after developing and introducing his flame-finish technique. I know of three Young rods that were built within a three-month period in the spring of 1948. The earliest of these rods was the first Para 16, which was flame-finished in a mottled tone and kept by Paul Young as a personal rod. The second rod was another Para 16, probably the second one built, and it is blonde, and now owned by a Forum member. The third one is a caramel-color rod, not mottled but very smoothly flamed without defects. This was a time of experimentation, and I think an exciting and positive time for Young. If Young concealed defects through flaming, he probably would have kept the blonde Para 16 for himself and sold the mottled-flame Para 16.

This is not to say that every Young rod measures up to today's cosmetic standards. For example, Young's varnish work was not the best, and one of the two tips of my Young-built Driggs rod exhibits some glue lines separating a couple of flats. I have no more problem with this than I have with Winslow Homer's fly fishing watercolors, where sometimes you can see Homer's faint pencil marks underlying the watercolor pigment, or you see a little opaque white paint where Homer covered up a slip of the brush. It's still a Homer! It's still a Young!

Rather than say that "the dimensions are all over the board on the rods," I prefer the explanations I have given above. When the Martha Marie model starts out specified with a 13/64 ferrule and 4 tiptop, and later is specified with a 14 ferrule and 4-1/2 tiptop, and then later you can get it with two different tip tapers... well yes, it is variable, as are the other Young models. To make a comparison again with painting, it is like Monet's series of paintings of Rouen Cathedral. They are all painted from the same vantage point, but they are all slightly different in color choices and handling of the paint. But no one ever said that one of Monet's Cathedral paintings was bad because it wasn't an exact copy of another example. I would say that Payne is more like a classical painter, with a consistency of execution like Ingres, and Young is more like an Impressionist, with a liveliness of execution like Monet, or better yet he is like Homer, with inelegant underpinnings within the work that somehow are transcended by the final, masterful result.

Again, everyone is free to disagree. I really like my Payne rod, but I really love my Youngs. I pick one up, cast it, and it makes me smile. That's its job and it does it well.
Please visit and bookmark the Paul H. Young Rod Database
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mer
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PHY Perfectionist Action

#26

Post by mer »

"I pick one up, cast it, and it makes me smile. That's its job and it does it well. "

Thanks Bob. You've put in words the exact "something" that made me choose the rods that I have in my small collection and that I've gotten up at SuperBoo every year, usually because Sante stuck a rod in my hand saying "You have to go cast this". One year it was a Kushner, this year it was a Halstead. Next year, who knows, but the anticipation makes the drive worth it.
If you don't mind, I'd like to use it for my sig line.

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quashnet
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#27

Post by quashnet »

That's fine with me if you use the phrase. Like your present sig line, it pretty well sums things up.
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mer
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PHY Perfectionist Action

#28

Post by mer »

Image

"7.5 foot leader, 7.5 foot rod, 30 feet of line out of the tiptop, 45 foot cast"

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creakycane
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PHY Perfectionist Action

#29

Post by creakycane »

It certainly seems that the Young rods do exhibit variabilities and changes over the years. I believe this shows inventiveness and a keen interest in rod performance and the end product - utility in casting and with a fish on. Youngs, and Summers rods for that matter, are simple and workmanlike - and elegant in their own subtle ways.

The parallel of Monet capturing a cathedral in Normandy in a series of paintings, to Young making individual rods slightly differently, seems to me a bit of a stretch. While I would hope a rod builder knows where he is pretty much going with a rod-making act - a painter, writer, sculptor is creating art in a stricter sense - a creative work. I would hope any artist of the latter-type is not trying to create a piece of art just like his last one. I have heard it said that many ? can build a few great rods - its the degree to which the maker can turn out many high-quality rods consistently over a period of years that measures the greatness. Indeed many artists who create one, or a few, great works early, are tomented to equal their early greatness throughout their years, often unsuccessfully.

In the end, it may come down to a maker, like an artist, having his muse - what should a bowl of fruit look like on canvas? A trout? a field of lillies?

The greatness of the rodmaker may then lie in his understanding of his "ideal rod", and his ability to execute, consistently, its production - taper, finish and all.BTW, Monet really catures the feeling of the Rouen cathedral in his many paintings - its a moody, beautiful place, Rouen. I have an interesting story about meeting a semi-famous actress right there near that cathedral, that I assure you has little to do with fly fishingImage
Last edited by creakycane on 08/16/07 08:12, edited 1 time in total.

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jaybird
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PHY Perfectionist Action

#30

Post by jaybird »

I say it's time for "more fishing...less fussing".

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quashnet
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#31

Post by quashnet »

I can't pretend to know to fully know Monet's intentions as he worked on the cathedral paintings more than a century ago. I do have my own insights as a full-time illustrator and artist. Since as an artist my work is to communicate science, I stand in both worlds of art and science, and have to keep the left and right brains talking to each other. I must balance the desire to exhibit creativity and insert liveliness into a painting of a fish with the requirement to satisfy the client for whom the fish painting is being made, a client who needs me to meet a deadline and who as a biologist requires that there be 68 scales in the lateral line, or 2 spines and fourteen soft rays in the dorsal fin, etc. You can see a couple of my less scientific, more fishing-related artworks in my yuku profile.

I suspect that the professional tuggings back and forth that I experience are not all that different from the ones that a professional rodmaker faces: enjoy the process of your craft, but meet the goals of client expectations.

Years ago I saw all the Rouen cathedral paintings gathered together at the Boston MFA, where for the first time in over a century they were displayed in one place exactly as Monet had premiered them at their first gallery exhibition. A jaw-dropping experience. You do get the sense that Monet "knew where he was going," but nevertheless inserted unique qualities into each painting, just like a professional pianist wouldn't start idly riffing on a theme in Beethoven's Piano Concerto No. 5, but still manages (if he's a great pianist) to create a compelling performance of the work.

I had hoped to sneak off this afternoon with a Young rod for a "more fishing, less fussing" session, but was thwarted by responsibilities. Maybe tomorrow!
Please visit and bookmark the Paul H. Young Rod Database
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Other rod databases: Dickerson , Orvis , Powell

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creakycane
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PHY Perfectionist Action

#32

Post by creakycane »

Really nice images! I guess it must be quite a challenge to decide as an artist how to represent fine details on a trout, for example. I have no talent in that area, but really envy those who so obviously do, my compliments.

I saw only a couple of the Monet cathedral paintings when at the Musee d'Orsay in the spring; I believe some were on loan. But of the few that were there, it was intriguing to guess what he was trying to convey to the viewer by the small changes - time of day, weather, mood?.

Did fish on Tuesday since it was the most mild day in recent memory - only up to 90 or so. Caught the largest stream-bred brown of the year for me from a stream I frequent (about 15in) - from the Catch/Keep waters that normally harbors stocked rainbows. Not on a Young, but a Bob Taylor rod - and a zug bug. Praying for rain now as things were pretty low.

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#33

Post by BobB »

Haven't figured out this new kudos thingy, but if we were still on the old Forum I would certainly be giving this discusssion 4 or 5 stars!

Bob

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#34

Post by uniphasian »

Bob - if you like the thread, go to the top of the page where the title is listed. Just to the left of it is a little heart icon. If you click on that, it leaves your kudo (or vote) for the topic. The more votes a topic gets evidently says something, just what that is I'm not entirely sure either.
- Uni

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#35

Post by BobB »

Thank you Uni! I liked the old rating system better. More user friendly and inderstood.

Bob

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PHY Perfectionist Action

#36

Post by kimk »

The question then becomes "can an object which has utilitarian use be an object of art?" Consider an art glass vase. Like an etching it may be one of an edition, but each one represents vision and creativity at the hands of its maker. The cathedral itself. Just a public building or a work of art in its own right? Some 18th century timepieces have a creativity and vision that transcends function. There are some engraved shotguns which might be considered. Consider the rods of our own Gnome. That these rods have a unique aesthetic would be an understatement. Not the same journey of exploration that Monet took, but neither is the journey taken by Dreyfus an industrial designer that designed thermostats and tractors, and who was the subject of a traveling retrospective in some major museums a few years back. Where does one draw the line? Is there a line?
I think this really belongs on the VWB page.Image
Kimk
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of the waters of March,
It's the end of all strain,
It's the joy in your heart.

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Re: PHY Perfectionist Action

#37

Post by kingstu »

I have a perfectionist # 3938 Oct. 1960 built for Richard V Rounds Jack Young hand writing. I sent it back recently to Bob Summers to have it rewrapped with black silk. The rod has super Z ferrules. Bob noted to me how fine the tips were. They are extremely fine indeed. Bob told me they stopped making the extremely fine tips at some point after 1960 because a lot of the customers would break them. He told me I have a rare rod with both fine tips still intact. This is one of the best casting 4 wts I ever owned. Even with the fine tips it is very parabolic. I can feel the parabola taper flexing into the cork handle. So tips etc. can be changed/ upgraded based on what customers are doing in stream testing conditions such as breaking tips because they are too fine! Delicate tips and trees = disaster!
Stu

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Re: PHY Perfectionist Action

#38

Post by RWHoffhines »

I know a fellow in Wis who has one of these light Perfectionists, and it is indeed divine, and very light-tipped. It has an aluminum step down ferrule. Paul Julius has made at least one rod on the measurements and would know more about it.

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Re: PHY Perfectionist Action

#39

Post by Short Tip »

I have fairly limited experience to draw on, but in a rare PHY convergence some years back, I owned 2 Perfectionists at the same time. One was a ca.1960 Bob Summers/ Jack Young rod, very pretty and very conventional, and the other was "Martha Marie's Perfectionist", a rod which now resides with another forum member and many of you have seen. The MM Perfectionist has aluminum ferrules, ventilated grip, and very fine tips, one of which was broken at the tiptop somewhere along the line. In spite of the fine tips, it seemed a bit more parabolic in action than the newer rod, which felt more conventionally progressive in action to me. Neither on is in the category of a Para 15, or even a Midge, when it comes to "parabolicness". I'm not at all surprised there are many interpretations.

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Re: PHY Perfectionist Action

#40

Post by ibookje »

So, which version is the most desirable (as in casting & fishing capabilities)?

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