PHY Perfectionist Action

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Short Tip
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Re: PHY Perfectionist Action

#41

Post by Short Tip »

My answer to that would be complicated....

I love casting parabolic rods. I like extreme para rods, especially Pezons.

I don't like fishing parabolic rods, they don't protect fine tippets, nor do they tend to fish well short. For me.

If I had to choose between my two PY Perfectionists, I would have kept the newer one.

But I sold them both.

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Re: PHY Perfectionist Action

#42

Post by kingstu »

I just got back the Perfectionist # 3938. Bob Summers restoration is excellent in black wraps and oxidized super Z ferrules. Recently I traded a MM 1958 that was a 5DT, 6WF, and kept the Perfectionist. I found that the Perfectionst with light tips fished with a 4 wt. TT long belly fly line was an excellent casting tool for smaller streams for brookies and wild rainbows ( 9-12 ins.) The parabola taper handles very well in small stream environments. The MM to me was more of a specialized rod 7 1/2 6 wt. (stout parabola) The MM cast very well, and I used it as part of a trade for a Pinky Gillum 7'0" # I 982 5wt. with Halstead ferrules. Progressive very fast 5 wt. I will test it out this year in multiple small stream environments with a dry fly.
Stu

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Re: PHY Perfectionist Action

#43

Post by creakycane »

ibookje wrote:So, which version is the most desirable (as in casting & fishing capabilities)?
A number of years ago, John Pickard made some replicas (well, at least one or two) of the 3 tip Perfectionist made for Gene Anderegg that is now owned by a bamboo rod dealer. Dual band, small slim cigar, mottled cane. He maintained that this rod was one of the best of the lighter Perfectionist tapers he had cast, miked and built, and I agree. It seems more parabolic than many Perfectionist tapers, and fishes a 4 wt well, but is more of a nice-day/dry fly rod than an all-rounder.

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Re: PHY Perfectionist Action

#44

Post by kingstu »

Creaky I agree, the Perfectionist with light tips is built for dry fly fishing on a nice day! I like to use it for prospecting with a dry fly on small open streams in Vermont it really shines! So in some ways its a specialized dry fly rod for flies size 16 and smaller!

Stu

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Re: PHY Perfectionist Action

#45

Post by Mass Trout »

The light tipped 4wt taper sounds like my kind of rod! What current makers are offering rods or blanks based on the lighter tipped 4 wt version?
Probably Apple and oranges, but how would that taper compare to the older lighter Payne 100 taper that is a 3/4wt? I Have a Mark Ruhe built rod based on that taper that I love but have never tried any version of the perfectionist.
Thanks for sharing he knowledge and feeding my addiction :)

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creakycane
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Re: PHY Perfectionist Action

#46

Post by creakycane »

Not being quantitative here, but the rod I referred to above has very fine tips for a perfectionist-type rod, and a slim enough butt for it to feel decidedly parabolic. It feels like it falls between Summers 260 and 275, but with finer tips.

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Re: PHY Perfectionist Action

#47

Post by bluesjay »

Hi Guys, I have cast the Anderegg Perfectionist. It's the best 7 1/2' 4wt. I've cast. "It has three tips? I didn't know that!" Jay Edwards

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czkid
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Re: PHY Perfectionist Action

#48

Post by czkid »

But just how many of you have cast a REAL PHY Perfectionist????

Ralph

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cwood
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Re: PHY Perfectionist Action

#49

Post by cwood »

czkid wrote:But just how many of you have cast a REAL PHY Perfectionist????

Ralph
[*]

Oh please god, not another "clones can't possibly cast like a REAL PHY rod" thread!!!

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Re: PHY Perfectionist Action

#50

Post by tomimc »

cwood wrote:Oh please god, not another "clones can't possibly cast like a REAL PHY rod" thread!!!
yep, especially considering how much the originals varied over the years, at least according to this particular thread...

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czkid
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Re: PHY Perfectionist Action

#51

Post by czkid »

Very true.... but they varied uniquely in their own manner. You can tell a Paul Young from a clone in most cases. Try it, before you comment. You might be very surprised.

Ralph

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Re: PHY Perfectionist Action

#52

Post by oneculm »

Ralph do the rods made by Heddon for Young have that same feel you mention as those made by Young?

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czkid
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Re: PHY Perfectionist Action

#53

Post by czkid »

Somewhat.... in measuring a couple they show the same regressive taper above and below the mid point of the rod. Apparently Paul had them cut the blanks to his own taper.

I've got a very early 7'6" Special that was made by Edwards for PHY and it has some "interesting" variations. Of course the tips on the rod are much later replacements as they appear to have been made by Young himself while he was experimenting with resorcinol glues after WWII.

Paul apparently incorporated regressions in his tapers early on, but they seem to have become more apparent after the war when he really started making his own blanks... the placement of the regressions appears to be relatively "consistent" rod to rod as far as location. Very apparent on my Para15 and Para17.

Ralph

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Re: PHY Perfectionist Action

#54

Post by hdrmd »

I agree with CZKid. I have two PHY Perfectionists and a Summers 275. They are all different; parabolics, yes , but different. I imagine clones would be even more varied.

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Re: PHY Perfectionist Action

#55

Post by JimmyB11 »

I have made at least 5 of the PYP's as listed in the Howells book. Everyone loves the rod, it handles most sizes of flies for trout well and is a great choice for a first rod for someone new to cane. A Jack of all trades kind of rod.

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Re: PHY Perfectionist Action

#56

Post by Pentalux »

The Perfectionist taper plus/minus a few thousandths - averaged and even with the "anomalies" removed can all produce a fine casting rod but there is no denying that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts when it comes to original Young rods.

There are those who even have there preferences among the genuine rods, ie those built by Paul vs Jack vs Bob or even Todd. All genuine Paul H. Young rods but definitely each shows different character - many will recall Keane's preference for those signed by Summers if I'm not mistaken.

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czkid
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Re: PHY Perfectionist Action

#57

Post by czkid »

Thank you gentlemen... the reason that I started this topic, lo these many years back, was because I have a beautiful Perfectionist clone that left me cold. As yet, I have not cast an original Perfectionist... Para15s/17, etc I've done the original vs. copy bit and could immediately tell the difference... even blindfolded.

I have a couple clones that have the mysterious "feel", 2 from Lee Koch and one from Scott Davis... both gentlemen that went through great lengths to duplicate cane, process, etc. Even the great maker Al Medved was unhappy with the results of his attempt on a certain PHY taper and reputedly tore the rod down.

This is not to demean those that try to duplicate the tapers... but there is more to it than just the taper... especially when the taper was originally "other" than on 5 inch centers.

I suspect that the Perfectionist is somewhat of an "odd ball" even for Paul Young as reported by the few that have cast them and the vast variation of the copies. Not good, not bad... just is.

Ralph

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Re: PHY Perfectionist Action

#58

Post by creakycane »

czkid wrote:Thank you gentlemen... the reason that I started this topic, lo these many years back, was because I have a beautiful Perfectionist clone that left me cold. As yet, I have not cast an original Perfectionist
Could it simply be that you prefer the Para 15's and Martha Marie's to the Perfectionist-type tapers, whether Paul Young or clones? There's much to like about those original rods, and the Perfectionist and later Midges are VERY different rod than the P15s and MMs.

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Re: PHY Perfectionist Action

#59

Post by czkid »

My very question... yet some claim that the the Martha Marie and Driggs are supposed to be derivations of the Perfectionist. That's why I asked, since every other PHY that I own or have tried had a positive attribute... even the early Specials, etc.

Ralph

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Re: PHY Perfectionist Action

#60

Post by quadrate »

This thread is painful to read sometimes. A rods action is primarily governed by the taper. The other factors do make minor differences such as cane density but it does not change the bending profile of the rod. The only other major factor in a rod is the glue used. You have to use a similar glue to what the original taper was glue with to get the action. Its not hard with Youngs. URAC or Resorcinol both have the same stiffness and match the Youngs fine.

There is no "magic" cane that they used and it could be argued that the stuff being used today is every bit as good if not better than the pre-embargo stuff. Cane is not wood so the older it is does not determine how strong or dense it is.

There are roughly 3 distinct Perfectionist tapers that take the 4/5 line and then the .260 butt version which I don't think Young made very many of. The tapers do vary and I think a lot of it was the poor milling machine Young had. It just was not that accurate.

There are 2 versions that take a 13 ferrule and one that takes a 14 ferrule. They are not parabolic like the Para 15, 17, and Martha Marie. That may be why some don't like it as much as other Youngs. I like the Para 15 with the dry tip which definitely takes the parabolic action out of the rod but it is great for its intended purpose.

You can make a clone every bit as good as an original Young. I've done it too many times for it not to be true. Actually the clones are probably better since the finish is worlds better than any finish that was put on an original Young.

Tim Zietak

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