PHY 6'8" 4 wt taper and info?

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Re: PHY 6'8" 4 wt taper and info?

#21

Post by Hellmtflies »

Simply Wonderful!

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quadrate
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Re: PHY 6'8" 4 wt taper and info?

#22

Post by quadrate »

I know this is an old thread but does anyone have the taper numbers for the 6'8" #4/5 Brightwater taper that Paul Young made for Wanigas?

Would love to build one of these rods.

Tim Zietak

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Re: PHY 6'8" 4 wt taper and info?

#23

Post by jhuskey »

On Mark McKellip's website he offers a Mite, based on a rod, 6'8" 5 wt. blank by Young for Art at Wanigas. Possibly Mr. McKellip can shed some light on the 6'8" 4 wt. also. Best Regards.

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Re: PHY 6'8" 4 wt taper and info?

#24

Post by fishwoodrods »

Hopefully I may shed some light on this as requested. As Peter Jones (Dewardian) had the opportunity to cast Art Neumann's 6'8" personal rod years ago, I did too and found that it was a very nice casting rod. That rod stuck in my head over the years as something that I'd like to find on the used rod market but one never materialized. Later on I got a call from John Pickard and he told me that he had just bought one from a man in St.Johns Michigan. We met up and cast it and it was just like the one that Art had. I don't believe that John had started to make rods yet, but he may have pulled the numbers off of it for future use. I introduced John to Art later on and he may have gotten the numbers then, I can't say for sure. In the interim I got a call from Art and he asked me if I would finish a bamboo rod for him that Art was going to give to his son Gary as a college graduation gift (that was about 35 years overdue). Art just never got to it. I didn't live far from Art so I agreed. In later years Art died and I wondered where his 6'8" rod went. I kind of forgot about it until a customer of mine asked me if I could make him a semi-parabolic 7' 4 weight. I told him that I didn't know of any but told him about the little Wanigas 6'8" rod. He said that based on what I told him about it he would order one if I could find the taper. The first place I checked was with Art's son Gary. He told me that he didn't inherit that rod and that his brother Doug did. I asked Gary for Doug's number to see if he would be willing to mail the rod to me from Florida so I could record the taper. Gary said that Doug would be coming up to Michigan to hunt deer in about a month and he would call him and have him bring it up with him. I was hunting in the general area myself and arranged to meet Doug at Gary's place in Lovells Michigan with a yardstick, calipers, calculator, pen and pencil in hand. I was mistaken about the line size though, both Doug and Gary said that it was a 5 weight, and the rod case was labeled as such. They both said that they were happy to do this because of the work that I had done over the years for their father. Gary gave me a letter from Art that outlined how he was able to convince Paul Young to sell him some blanks and even to design some models to suit Art. I am including a picture of the letter here along with a page from a Wanigas catalog that lists all of the Young/Wanigas models that Art sold. He even explains why he wasn't able to procure any more of this model. Gary told me that his father told him that around 20 blanks in this model Young made him.
I ended up making 4 so far of the "Mite" as Art called it, one of which is my own. (Ken,perhaps you forgot, your friend Jay has one of these.) When I made the first one I was hoping that by shaving off a bit on the numbers that it would be a 4 weight. It will throw it a bit better at distance but for practical fishing distances it is a true 5.

Image



Image



Image

Here's my copy with a stacked leather grip/seat.



Image

Mark McKellip.

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Re: PHY 6'8" 4 wt taper and info?

#25

Post by Oxbow »

WOW Mark. That is really terrific information. Thanks for posting. Can you describe the taper - parabolic, semiparabolic?
Last edited by Oxbow on 10/22/21 09:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PHY 6'8" 4 wt taper and info?

#26

Post by jhuskey »

Yes, thank you very much for posting Mark!
Best,
John

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Re: PHY 6'8" 4 wt taper and info?

#27

Post by AlexP »

That rod is beautiful, thanks Mark

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Re: PHY 6'8" 4 wt taper and info?

#28

Post by RAZINGKANE »

Mark

Phenomenal. Thanks so much for the history lesson. That is about as good as it gets for setting the record straight and tracking provenance on a particular model/taper. Thank you.

John Niemann

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Re: PHY 6'8" 4 wt taper and info?

#29

Post by creakycane »

Thanks for the info, Mark. Very interesting and consistent with what I recall...... FWIW, John seemed pretty interested in that gap between the Midge and Driggs as far as Young tapers when we talked in 2005 - 2012 time frame about various options.
Two rods that standout to me are his 684, which is John's version of the Neumann Brightwater rod you mention, and the 704, which is his version of the Young Princess.
I took both rods to the river today, and caught a couple of small browns/rainbows on each using 16 caddis and 18 olive imitations, and fished a small dropper with the EHC for a bit.
Both are mottled flamed, dual band over cork and cigar grips.
The 684 with a Peach DT-4 worked fine, though it did feel a bit underlined in close. I could see it taking a 5 wt, so sounds like your Mite to some degree.
The 704 seemed to me a perfectly centered 4 wt, and was less powerful and more willowy.
On the old Pickard Website, there was a picture of John with (at least) one very large brown caught on the 704 during a brown drake spinner fall, IIRC. I always thought that wouldn't be the rod for that kind of fish, and given the bend an 11 inch wild brown put in my 704 today, I still feel that way.

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Re: PHY 6'8" 4 wt taper and info?

#30

Post by fishwoodrods »

Oxbow wrote:
10/21/21 21:44
WOW Mark. That is really terrific information. Thanks for posting. Can you describe the taper - parabolic, semiparabolic?
It's a semi-parabolic rod that's quite remarkable with its reach for a short rod.
Mark.

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Re: PHY 6'8" 4 wt taper and info?

#31

Post by fishwoodrods »

creakycane wrote:
10/22/21 15:36
Thanks for the info, Mark. Very interesting and consistent with what I recall...... FWIW, John seemed pretty interested in that gap between the Midge and Driggs as far as Young tapers when we talked in 2005 - 2012 time frame about various options.
Two rods that standout to me are his 684, which is John's version of the Neumann Brightwater rod you mention, and the 704, which is his version of the Young Princess.
I took both rods to the river today, and caught a couple of small browns/rainbows on each using 16 caddis and 18 olive imitations, and fished a small dropper with the EHC for a bit.
Both are mottled flamed, dual band over cork and cigar grips.
The 684 with a Peach DT-4 worked fine, though it did feel a bit underlined in close. I could see it taking a 5 wt, so sounds like your Mite to some degree.
The 704 seemed to me a perfectly centered 4 wt, and was less powerful and more willowy.
On the old Pickard Website, there was a picture of John with (at least) one very large brown caught on the 704 during a brown drake spinner fall, IIRC. I always thought that wouldn't be the rod for that kind of fish, and given the bend an 11 inch wild brown put in my 704 today, I still feel that way.
I owned a Young Princess many years ago. It was a departure from most Youngs in that it wasn't a semi-parabolic rod at all. It more resembled the Martha Marie to me in action, which was quicker. John had a Wanigas Princess and he told me back then that he was going to try to modify the Princess taper to take 4 weight instead of a 5. My son bought Johns first rod that he made and it was his 704. I don't think that John was ever really happy with it in that your findings and assessment of your 704 matches his take as well. He wanted to retain the quickness of the Princess, but in a 4 weight. That's as much as I know about that. When Art Neumann approached Paul Young to request a rod between the Midge and the Princess, he was thinking the same thing as John. When I owned a Midge I thought of it as more of a toy than anything, but the Mite isn't a toy at all.
I remember when John caught that fish. It was on the Au Sable mainstream below Mcmasters bridge near the "Linger-Longer Lodge" that his father owned at the time. John and I spent quite a bit of time there evaluating many different rods on the lawn and fishing together. Many fond memories.
Mark.

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Re: PHY 6'8" 4 wt taper and info?

#32

Post by quadrate »

Thanks for all of that info Mark. Great stuff. Super interesting about the mention of Paul Young having problems with the aluminum ferrules on Midges. I have seen a lot of Midges over the years and I have never been witness to one that had a break at the ferrule. It seems as though most all of the Midges and a majority of Perfectionists had those aluminum ferrules and yet you rarely see one that has been repaired at the middle of the rod and shortened there. That is one heck of a nice lineup of rods that Wanigas had. If you couldn't find a rod that would suit your fishing with that lineup I don't know what to you.

TZ

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Re: PHY 6'8" 4 wt taper and info?

#33

Post by creakycane »

fishwoodrods wrote:
10/22/21 19:08
creakycane wrote:
10/22/21 15:36
Thanks for the info, Mark. Very interesting and consistent with what I recall...... FWIW, John seemed pretty interested in that gap between the Midge and Driggs as far as Young tapers when we talked in 2005 - 2012 time frame about various options.
Two rods that standout to me are his 684, which is John's version of the Neumann Brightwater rod you mention, and the 704, which is his version of the Young Princess.
I took both rods to the river today, and caught a couple of small browns/rainbows on each using 16 caddis and 18 olive imitations, and fished a small dropper with the EHC for a bit.
Both are mottled flamed, dual band over cork and cigar grips.
The 684 with a Peach DT-4 worked fine, though it did feel a bit underlined in close. I could see it taking a 5 wt, so sounds like your Mite to some degree.
The 704 seemed to me a perfectly centered 4 wt, and was less powerful and more willowy.
On the old Pickard Website, there was a picture of John with (at least) one very large brown caught on the 704 during a brown drake spinner fall, IIRC. I always thought that wouldn't be the rod for that kind of fish, and given the bend an 11 inch wild brown put in my 704 today, I still feel that way.
I owned a Young Princess many years ago. It was a departure from most Youngs in that it wasn't a semi-parabolic rod at all. It more resembled the Martha Marie to me in action, which was quicker. John had a Wanigas Princess and he told me back then that he was going to try to modify the Princess taper to take 4 weight instead of a 5. My son bought Johns first rod that he made and it was his 704. I don't think that John was ever really happy with it in that your findings and assessment of your 704 matches his take as well. He wanted to retain the quickness of the Princess, but in a 4 weight. That's as much as I know about that. When Art Neumann approached Paul Young to request a rod between the Midge and the Princess, he was thinking the same thing as John. When I owned a Midge I thought of it as more of a toy than anything, but the Mite isn't a toy at all.
I remember when John caught that fish. It was on the Au Sable mainstream below Mcmasters bridge near the "Linger-Longer Lodge" that his father owned at the time. John and I spent quite a bit of time there evaluating many different rods on the lawn and fishing together. Many fond memories.
Mark.
Yes, I learned a lot from these discussions with John. Around this time, He sent me a repaired tip for a Summers 75 (7’5wt) that he somehow acquired, and knowing I had a 75, figured it would be a beater 3rd tip for me (which it has been). This was another model we discussed a fair bit, but as you say, John searched for a very illusive feel for that 7’4 wt, not just a lightened 75.
I also believe he tried to get the action he was looking for in quads, and made 6’6”, 6’8” and 7 ft experimental quads in that general size and style. The cane work and mottled flaming on those big flats was just beautiful. If anyone is interest I can mike those at some point.

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