Joe Bradley rods

[norcal_1]

This does bring up a problem.... or at least a problem for me. The term Para-this and Para-that are to be associated with the Paul Young Company. I have no problem with something like "Inspired by..." or "My version of....", but to use the term without explanation does seem to be a bit "wrong". This would apply to copies of other makers rods as well and not just PHY.

Ralph

Nobody who picks up a very blond Joe Bradley rod with black ash reel seat is ever going to confuse it with an original flamed Paul Young. Joe's rods on sight could only be confused with Homer Jennings, but that is a compliment.

Rod makers may use Para 13, Para 14, 15, etc like a sizing category ala fly lines are WF3,4,5,6,7 or DT3,4,5,6.

Maybe rod makers who make parabolic rods decided on using Para 13,14,15,16 and 17 the same way - as a sizing standard. It gives a sense of what size rod to expect with parabolic rods. In fact on Joe Bradley's own website, he uses the same sizing numbers for his progressive tapered rods - Pro-12, Pro-13, Pro-14, etc, so it is a sizing thing with him first and foremost.

Joe's rods are his own taper, every single one of them he developed on RodDNA from original Young tapers of course just as Bob Summers does, and further perfected by making prototypes to get the tapers dialed in to push forward the tapers to a different place that time and technology and trial and error can provide. He sells only 12 to 15 rods a year. He's not copying anybody to profit from use of the name. Somebody could make the argument that Bob Summers is taking advantage of his time at Paul Young a heck of a lot more convincingly than Joe Bradley. If Paul Young had access to technology like Rod DNA I'm sure given how much he liked to experiment that he probably would have used it. Bob Summers told me that Paul Young never made the same rod twice because the equipment wasn't that precise to get the flats to match.

Nobody I'm aware of confuses a Farlows Midge designed by Lee Wulff with a Paul Young Midge or a Thomas & Thomas Midge for that matter. And most importantly, Paul Young didn't sue any of them for doing it or try to stop it from happening. He seemed to think it was a waste of time. Not sure what he would think of this discussion, but I guess he might laugh and tell us to all go fishing instead.

Joe named the rods the way he did, and for us to discuss them, we have no choice but to use the names he used, unfortunately. I'm sorry it offends some, but maybe the offense is misplaced as others have tried to point out countless times on this forum, with no offense to the offended.

[kconway]

Oh brother...

Hey Norcal1 remember what we were talking about at lunch today? Bingo.

I've known Joe Bradley for several years now and own a number of his rods. Yep he makes parabolic rods, but there his "version". He's a great man. I got to cast Norcal1's PHY rods this weekend, and yep they were wonderful and also parabolic. Reading this forum and other literature there's para's to the left and para's to the right. But this was a thread on Joe Bradley and his rods, that's all.

Best wishes,
Ken

[czkid]

I have no problem with the term being used as a "sizing" as long as it had some other descriptor associated with it. If someone made a car (other than GM) named "Malibu" I would have the same difficulty. Too many folks that I know have picked up PHY copies and think they cast the same as the original... unfortunately they don't.

It's just my "nit", but I think it's something to be considered.

Ralph

[Boo]

There are several rods named "Midge", too. Who takes credit? Ritz/Knight, started it all with parabolics [at least in name]. It's more descriptive of the rod taper than an actual name. No one has patented it and if there was a patent Ritz may be the first in line. Though I would think it very possible there were para's prior to Ritz but never called as such. No big deal. Joe Bradley makes a wonderful rod and imo, do not cast like Young repros I've casted. They are his own and he can call them whatever he likes without stepping on the toes of Ritz, Young, or who ever. Now, back to the OP.

[bhuz]

Norcal, thanks for the excellent information, your comments on both Joe's rods and on the PHY Doerr are very helpful. Yes, his Para 16 might just be what I'm looking for. I'll talk with Joe about it. Ken, I'd love to hear your comments regarding both your Para 16 and 15. Thanks all.
Tom

[kconway]

Hi Tom,

I have one of Joe's progressive rods and all the rest are Para's. After seeing your question I went out on the lawn today and cast my JB Para 15 and my wife's JB Para 17, I may have mistyped earlier in the thread and said it was a Para 16, my fault. My JB Para 15 is an 8' 6/7wt, more so a 7wt and it really favors a Royal Wulff LB7 line. I'd def. use it for smaller run steelhead and big trout. It's a wonderful casting rod and def. has a different feel than a real PHY, of which I've only cast two real one's, Norcal's Doerr and Para 15.

My wife's JB Para 17 is an 8 1/2 7/8wt, def. feels very parabolic, much like Norcal's Doerr, and a powerful rod and it also liked the LB7 line. Norcal and I cast the JB Para 17 and Doerr this weekend together and in my humble opinion they felt similar in my hand, but def. two different rods. This Para 17 of Joe's is an older prototype he made a few years back that he is still tinkering around with. Again, another big fish rod.

Both rods would be great to use with dries and nymphs, excellent big water all purpose rods. I prefer the 8' Para 15 version, it's just an awesome rod, it's going to Idaho and Montana with me this summer.

Joe's rods are excellent and he is a wonderful guy. Hope this helps Tom, any other questions please feel free to PM me.

Ken

[chestatee]

This has been a very informative subject. I have quite a few PHYs and have also spent a long afternoon with Joe Bradley. His work is first class. I'll add he's a superb guy to spend a day with! His take on PHYs tapers is outstanding. I too loved his Para 14.

One way or another I am going to get out to San Francisco this summer with several PHYs and spend a long day with you gents on the GGACC ponds. I'll bring along several originals for some entertaining comparisons.

Thanks to all who provided their detailed descriptions/experiences here. Learning more with every post. Keep up the great work Joe!

Cheers,

Doug

[norcal_1]

^Doug, that would be a fun afternoon indeed, and as you know, we're looking forward to hosting you whenever you can make the trip work. I'm also willing to ship out my Bradley rods to the next gathering to let anybody on the east coast give them a try

Just want to make a quick observation about Joe B's bigger rods

His Para 15 is more like a "baby Para 17" in feel than what the original PHY Para 15 feels like. It's effortless with either a 6 or 7 wt Wulff Long Belly line w/a smooth slingshot feel to the forward casting stroke - that second power impulse that makes parabolic rods so fun to cast. It's like Bob Summers 827 rod or a more parabolic version of a PHY Boat Rod/Encampment Special.

The model he calls his Para 17 is more parabolic than the original, very, very smooth casting and a bit more powerful. Kconway's was made in the traditional 8 1/2 ft length ala the original; and mine is a stretched 9 ft length. Ken's is slightly more powerful than mine for it's size as you might expect. A good caster can probably outcast a graphite rod with either of them using far less physical effort and having a lot more fun because the taper does the work. Think 11 o'clock to 1 o'clock motion and not 10 to 2 like with progressive rods.

We were using a SA GPX (7.5) wt line on them just for kicks, but both Joe's Para 17 and the PHY Doerr are 8 WF rods all day long, and if you had a reason to fish a 9 wt, they can handle that as well. I prefer the GPX or an Airflo 8 WF depending on conditions. You barely have to put much effort into them...they slingshot the line on the forward cast and are also great roll casters. I tend to roll cast a lot when fishing big rods likes these (swing a fly and then water load the rod and roll cast it back upstream). Joe tweaked all his tapers to work best with Wulff Long Belly lines which are fantastic roll casting lines in their own right.

Btw, for those who don't know, Joe makes his rods with pre-embargo cane he got from Walt Powell back in the day (that he got from the culms hand picked by EC Powell). As with PHY rods, I think it makes a difference as to how unique his rods cast and feel and the deep reserve of power they all seem to possess whenever you want or need to call upon it.

[chestatee]

Mike,

Thanks for the invite. We should try to drag Joe out as well. I'll email you the PHY list and let you solicit what rods I need to bring. Can I BYOB to the GGACC? My wife will join us, but will soon share many sarcastic comments about our efforts (unless I ply her with a glass of wine (or two)). Then we should have a smiling observer. Better yet, I'll beg any of you to drag her out there to cast. I've had no luck...

The more we discuss and compare these rods, along with the opportunities we've had to cast identical makers/models side by side, the more convinced I am that every rod is truly unique. We certainly have general impressions and characteristics we can describe and identify, but I've yet to handle two identically made rods that cast the same. That goes for contemporaries, as well as vintage tackle. Certainly with the vintage tackle I expect more 'nuances' related to use and storage. These nuances keep me anxious to cast every example I can (new and old), while insuring I am never content with the rods I own/fish. I'm not a musician, but I suspect the same is true of fine instruments. This is good stuff; 'insurance' that we'll remain engaged and entertained!

My gratitude again to everyone sharing their impressions here. Sorry to digress. I love Parabolics and find Joe's work to be superb.

Doug

[norcal_1]

Doug, you can BYOB to the GGACC - I can bring few bottles of really great hard to get CA pinot to keep everybody happy

Joe B is likely to be in Idaho on the Henry's Fork in June, but I can ask if he's going to delay things this year due to the snow pack and poor fishing last season.

The only weekend not to book is the second Saturday of any month, that's when the free casting lessons happen and it's a mad house - 100 to 200 people tend to show up and the warmer the weather, the larger the crowds

I think teaching a spouse to fly cast is like skiing....best left to strangers to do for some reason - I can set her up with a casting instructor while she's there if you want. The fun thing about the GGACC is the target circles out in the pools make fly casting turn into target shooting, so there is an end to the means which helps make it more fun than just throwing line. The circles are spaced at distances that challenge even the best casters to reach. If 13 yr old casting champion Maxine is there that day, she could really show her how to do it (and us too)! http://www.sfgate.com/outdoors/article/ ... 173951.php

[bhuz]

Ken & Norcal,
Thanks so much for generously sharing your comments on Joe Bradley's parabolic rods, they've been very helpful. As is sometimes said on these pages, "this is our Forum at its best".
Tom

[kconway]

Norcal and Doug,

Let me know when you figure out a date, I'll bring all of my Joe rods and an excellent Ron Barch Para 15 that I've fished on the lower Sac to add to the casting arsenal. I'm not Italian but Irish, so the Irish make a fantastic wine called Whisky, or Whiskey. I'll bring some in case it's cold and foggy, cough medicine ya' know.

Ken

[kconway]

You got it Tom, anytime. Just glad we could help and let's hope we bump into each other some time!

Ken

[NedZeppelin]

And I am expecting delivery momentarily of a 7'6" Para 13 and Joe was quite clear in explaining that his "Para" is not PHY's "Para" - they are all his design, although definitely parabolic (the generic term) in nature. What a great guy to talk to - really enjoyed the conversation and he was most helpful. I can't imagine I won't be soon lusting after one of the other ones folks like here.

I will send pix as soon as I get it and get a chance.

[kconway]

Ned,

You're going to love that Para 13, I have one, it's so light and a smooth caster. Let us see it when you get it.

Best wishes, Ken

[norcal_1]

On Saturday, I spent 5 hours visiting Joe Bradley and picking up another new rod model he's come up with.

Last year, Joe made a stretched version of his Para 14 taper for a customer who wanted a longer 5 wt rod for the Henry's Fork. It came out to be 8'3 in length due to the physics + math required to get the taper to feel right when it's extended. It still maintained the same 5 wt line size as the 7'9 version. Bob Golder mentioned in one of his PHY history posts that the Para 14 was one of Paul Young's unfinished tapers and a good one for rod builders in the modern day to try to improve and I think he's right, this is a good taper to tinker with.

This winter Joe made two more versions, one of which was stronger, with more cane in the taper. It's more of a 5/6 wt version, and since I tend to like stronger parabolic rods, I fell in love at first cast.

With a 5 wt Wulff Long Belly line, it casts beautifully. It is more powerful than the regular Para 14 7'9 model he makes. It's effortless to cast and it begs for more line if you air it out. I love the added power on this stronger and longer version of the taper - he didn't substitute stiffness for power at all. That's the beauty of parabolic rods - they can be powerful and yet still not need to be very stiff if you get the taper and the lower hinge point right. This lengthened model is still fine in close, like all Para 14's seem to be, even though it's an 8'3 ft rod. With the 6 wt Long Belly line, it turns ultra silky smooth and even more parabolic as the extra weight unlocks more of the stronger hinge parabolic rods have built in to the taper. For dry fly fishing, you can use the 5 wt LB line and it's as smooth with that line as the shorter version; and for nymph fishing, you can use the better turnover ability of the 6 wt line. Unlike a PHY Para 15 that has a separate tip for each type of fishing, you can use the same tips for either line and still cast great with both. For the California rivers that run deep and fast, this is a very versatile rod model. Roll casts like a dream, too, which is important for nymph fishing.

Compared to a Para 15, it's got less swing weight b/c of the smaller size 14 ferrule. It has a more parabolic feeling, too. It is just about as powerful as the wet tip is on the Para 15, but isn't a tip heavy feeling as some P15's are. The power band seems to be lower on the rod with not as much stiffness around the ferrule as with P15's. Overall, it's a dream rod and one of the best bamboo nymphing rods I've ever handled that also happens to be a great dry fly rod if one line wt lighter is used. Not sure any other builder is tinkering with parabolics like Joe is. The only other rod I've cast that feels like this one is James Reid's model 8542 (8 1/2 ft spliced ferrule 4 wt).

[tcorfey]

Norcal1, it was nice to meet you briefly at Joe's shop on Saturday (at least I assume that was you from your previous posting). I was there to pickup up my new 7'6" Perfectionist taper with a Spanish Cedar reel seat.

Let me share that it is a wonderful rod and Joe is a first class gentleman, so willing to share his craft and his hobbies (his flintlock rifles) he is really a great rod builder and the nicest person you ever wanted to work with. Before and after I cast the new rod Joe showed me around his shop and took me through all (well not all) but in general all the steps he takes while building a rod and he is a true craftsman. It also shows through in his work as I have never held such a fine rod. The first time I cast the rod it actually felt like I had owned it all of my life. Such a beautiful touch to that rod.

First thing I did after purchasing it was head to a pond that I know has some panfish and bass in it and proceeded to catch a multitude of fish. Nothing big mind you but even the small ones sent a wave of excitement down the rod. ( I sent a picture of my first fish over to Joe, I think he got a good laugh out of that as his response was "No moss growing under that stone, well done.")

It lays down a very nice line whether you are overhead or roll casting. It was very accurate and had nice reserve power in the butt with a sensitive tip. I know my words can not do the rod justice. Joe's finish work is also first class, I just refinished my Payne 100 taper and Joe's finish work puts mine to shame but he gave me some pointers that I hope to make use of.

I am looking forward to making use of this rod for many years.

I will try to put up some pictures soon.

Regards,

TimC.

[baughb]

Proud owner of two Joe Bradley rods. Progressive 7'6" 4wt and 7'9' 5 wt.

Have been fishing the 4wt for a number of years and it is a delight. Just got the 5wt recently and have yet to really get to know it but, in the casting times I've had, it suits my stroke ideally.

I also really like to be able to support true craftsmen that I get to have face time with. I would highly recommend his fly rods.

Bob

[Showme]

I'm kinda sold on trying one of these rods. What is Mr. Bradley's wait time looking like?

[norcal_1]

I'm kinda sold on trying one of these rods. What is Mr. Bradley's wait time looking like?

Joe makes 10 to 15 rods rods per year from December to April and spends the rest of the time retired and fishing out of his place in Idaho on the Henry's Fork

I visited him last weekend and he had a 7'9 Para 14 5 wt, a 7'9 Para 13 4 wt, a 7'6 5 wt Perfectionist and an 8'3 stretched Para 14 that he was bringing with him to Idaho to sell at Mike Lawson's old shop. Mike was an early supporter and good friend, so he always saves some for his customers. You can probably talk him out of one before he leaves next week but you should contact him soon before he packs up. After that, you'll have to wait until next winter.