Early E.F.Payne / Jam fit reel seat

[N.Z.TROUT]

I've just added an early E.F.PAYNE 9' 3pcs.2 tips fly rod to my humble collection.It's in the mail as i speak,i feel like a kid on Christmas Day.I'am hoping to contact Mr. Steve Blake for rewraps,varnish.The rod has a full metal reel seat with sliding ring and butt cap,but the reel seat has a spiral guide,that direct's the ring.Hoping some of you have information on it,any and all welcomed.I'll be posting photo's as soon as i receive it.Thank's Guy's

[teter]

N.Z. Trout,
Congratulations -- I'm sure you will love your Payne.
The reel seat you are talking about is sometimes referred to as the "jam fit." Jim Payne was searching for an improvement on the simple sliding ring on a wooden spacer (I'm still not sure I understand why) and this was a transitional type before the Halstead reel seat, which resembles the Hardy seats, became the standard locking seat on Paynes.
The jam fit seat is fairly rare, as I understand it. Here is mine, on a Payne 202 sold by Von Lengerke & Antoine:

[N.Z.TROUT]

Hey Teter,Thank's for posting your photo's,thats a fine looking rod and reel,judging by the cork,looks to be in excellent condition.I will be using a Hardy 3 3/8'',1912 check, Perfect with a Blue agate on mine,my other Payne use's aHardy 3 1/8 3 screw 1917check St. George with a Root beer agate. I couldn't find any info on the internet concerning the reel seat,so i thought perhaps it was on the rare side.I also have a Payne 205 that i just love casting,i'am hoping this will the same!Because of the makers stamp,i believe it's from the late 20's to early 30's,what your guess?Do you know if it's Jims design,and doe's he have a patent on it?Was this used on many model's?Sorry for all the question's but i'am fascinated by it.I was after a unique Payne,this look's like it.Any more floating around,sure would like to see them.Thank's everyone.

[jeffkn1]

The concept of a spiral locking band on a reel seat began with Brooklyn rod maker John Landman, who was issued the patent in 1890. I'm not sure when the patent expired but Landman died in 1917 and we saw several makers employ the design in the 1930's, Montague, Whaling, and Payne coming to mind. Payne's adaptation reverses the original design, which had a projection on the inside diameter of the band riding in a spiral groove on the body whereas Payne put a notch in the band and had it follow a spiraled rail on the body. I'm not much of a Payne historian so someone else will have to clarify how long Payne used that seat. I don't believe it was long.

[N.Z.TROUT]

Well i finally figured out photo bucket(with a little help),so here's my Payne 208L.It has some small issue's,but it's in the hand's of Mr. Blake now,so i have no worry's.Haven't found any more info on the year(s) it was being offered,sure would like to know.Thank's for your help jeffkn1

[teter]

That's going to be an eyeful when it gets out of Steve's skilled hands. Please post pictures when you get it back.

[N.Z.TROUT]

Well,i've received the rod back from Steve,and as you can see,i couldn't be more pleased.He left the two tip's untouched other than a waxing,even in the daylight the color match of wrapping is spot on!He's truly an Artist and Craft's man.This being the first time i'am able to cast the rod,i believe it was money WELL spent,and now i'll let it earn it's keep.

[cregb]

Nice! Is that an "EVO" in the cork? Is is stamped in?

Creg

[N.Z.TROUT]

To answer your question cregb,No, i don't believe it's stamped,i'am pretty sure it was very lightly branded /burned.I'Am guessing it must be the original owner's initial's?Or could it be that one off,super special,highly collectable,rod built by Jim for his favorite fishing Buddy?Either way i hardly notice them with rod in hand,but stand's out quite well in the photo's,i guess it's another unique feature on this semi unusual rod.Thank's for asking,i'am pretty sure other's would be wondering the same thing.

[bigskybum]

For what it's worth, I have a virtually identical Payne 206 with the Landman reelseat, beautifully restored by Steve Blake. Mine likes a DT4 line best, which for me produces a characteristic smooth-as-silk Payne action. Wonderful light line dry fly rod.

Only advice that I'd offer is that the Landman reelseat needs a fairly thin foot to work, or at least mine does. I mostly use a JW Young reel with its original aluminum foot with mine, finding that classic Hardy brass feet are generally too thick to fit.

Enjoy yours!

-Steve

[N.Z.TROUT]

Thank's for the advice,i think your right about it a 4wt,it's a pleasure to cast,i was using a w.f.5 and it seemed a bit much,perhap's good for a windy day.I originally thought mine was a 206,not being able to get a proper weight with rod incomplete of a few guide's,ferrule,tip top,and wrap's,but now that it's done,it weigh's in at a hair under 5 1/4oz.So now i'am guessing it's a 208L?What's your's weigh?Not that it matter's one way or the other,but it sure would be nice to know for sure wouldn't it.I think maybe i'll mic. the ferrule's and see what they are,that might help?Would you mind checking your's for comparison.Have you been able to pin point a date yet?Sure glad to hear of other's out there,that make's 3 on this forum alone.See ya on the Water, Ken

[bigskybum]

Mine has the hang tag intact, which identifies it as a 206, with a weight of 5 1/8 ounces. Weighing it I get 5.123 ounces total, averaging the two tips, which is as close to 5 1/8 ounces as I can possibly imagine.

fishnbanjo's reference on the forum lists a weight of 4 3/4 ounces for the 9' model 206, with the notation that those weights are for the skeleton (cap and ring) reel seat. The Landman reel seat would clearly be somewhat heavier, so this all sounds relatively consistent to me.

Hope that helps.

-Steve

[teter]

Steve did a great job, as was to be expected. That's a very nice rod.

[N.Z.TROUT]

Thank's Steve,that was very helpful,and yes Teter,he did what he doe's Best,only wish i could take better photo's,these don't do him justice,it's flat out gorgeous in person.Hopefully this will encourage other's to post their's.I would think there are other's in various size's,and make up,i'd love to see a 7 footer.

[ukey]

Oh man that's a beautiful Payne and the St George looks perfect with it!!!!!

[AK Troutbum]

Here are a few pictures of mine, per your request Ken. Payne 9 1/2' 3/1 weighing 6 oz. unsure of model #. Maybe someone on here can help me out with the model?









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