64Emmons wrote:Don't overthink the taper thing with production rods. They took stock sections and trimmed them to suit whatever rod lengths they needed and even sanded areas like the final nine to twelve inches in tip sections. There were not special 9 foot three piece tapers and special 8 1/2 foot tapers in those production rods -- even Young, Leonards and Paynes. Heck, Dickerson used very few patterns to make his tapers -- a single pattern bar worked for a variety of rods.
Chis hits it on the head. The taper idea is a modern construct. Traditional rodmakers used the term "action," whereas "taper" wasn't in their vocabulary. The notion/idea of tapers shows up in the 1970s with Keane, Carmichael, and Garrison. Every quality and "middling" maker used taper sticks, usually 5 feet long. For a three piece rod, the maker chose what he considered the correct three sections to produce the "action" he desired. For instance, a rod built to a 17/64 butt ferrule and a 10/64 tip ferrule would have an extremely "fast action." By using 15/64 and 10/64, he had a slow-actioned rod.
Frankly, many production rods, aka "trade rods," are near masterpieces. On the downside, cheap rods are heavy, doggish, and the brass ferrules will break. A rod should have German silver ferrules, a quality reel seat, and a solidly constructed blank with no glue voids. As a rule, blemished blanks do not diminish castability. I don't wish to insult anyone, but if he can't afford a good rod-- which will be stronger, lighter, and more enjoyable-- then he has chosen the wrong hobby.
Hey Broken Rod, don't you think that last sentence is a little harsh? There is nothing wrong with a guy who can't afford an expensive rod buying and using the rod he can afford, even if he can only afford a production rod that may be of "poor" quality. We need to encourage young people to enter our hobby and keep the bamboo tradition alive. I can afford any rod I want, but I actually prefer an older production rod that has had lots of use and was made before even I was born, yet is still a great caster and entirely fishable. They may not look so pretty, but I don't look so pretty either and I still got a few good years left. I have one expensive rod made by one of the famous and respected makers that is also very beautiful, yet I usually fish with my old H-I's, South Bends, and no name Japanese rods. Even some of the "poor" quality rods (but not all) can be made better with a little afternoon TLC and a few minor alterations here and there.
Joe
I really don't know if I was that harsh. Look at it this way. If a person switches to bamboo fly rods, then he or she has already used graphite. An ordinary graphite fly rod costs $100. For that price, a new collector can purchase a good production rod by Montague, SB, or whomever. I'm talking about cheap rods with nickel-plated brass ferrules and reel seats. They are not worth the $20 spent on them. Rods like these weigh 1/3 again what a good production rod weighs, and I guarantee a ferrule WILL split at some point during the rod's life. At one point, Sears and Roebuck sold rods like this for a dollar, and they are worth zero today.
"He started off in the wood-turning trade." Profile on Fred Thomas, 1906
Author: Successful Shark Fishing (1996) Classic & Antique Fly Fishing Tackle (1997, 2002) The Demon's Door Bolt (2011) Forging the Blade (2012)
This has me wondering how many people have decided to give bamboo a try only to make a bad rod choice. No fault of their own. Simply not knowing good from bad. This would certainly lead them to give up on bamboo. I can assure you that without this site I would still be clueless. After all, these rods were built before many wanting to try bamboo were born. Maybe someone with the knowledge could compile a list of rods from these manufacturers that are worth buying. This could lead to more people pursuing the joys of fishing bamboo.
B.R. does make a good point. There are lots of good rods out there, but there is a bunch of junk too. Up here, it not uncommon for someone to show up complaining about all bamboo rods are crap. And when you see the rod they have, it's typically a cheap 9 foot plus English/Scottish rod that looks like it was used for a buggy whip and it casts like a buggy whip too boot.
alberta al wrote:B.R. does make a good point. There are lots of good rods out there, but there is a bunch of junk too. Up here, it not uncommon for someone to show up complaining about all bamboo rods are crap. And when you see the rod they have, it's typically a cheap 9 foot plus English/Scottish rod that looks like it was used for a buggy whip and it casts like a buggy whip too boot.
Alan
Alan brings up a good point. A rod like he describes was my introduction to bamboo. A friend of mine picked it up cheap and I could see why. It was heavy, sloppy and had a huge set. Not fun to fish.
Hank3 wrote:This has me wondering how many people have decided to give bamboo a try only to make a bad rod choice. No fault of their own. Simply not knowing good from bad. This would certainly lead them to give up on bamboo. I can assure you that without this site I would still be clueless. After all, these rods were built before many wanting to try bamboo were born. Maybe someone with the knowledge could compile a list of rods from these manufacturers that are worth buying. This could lead to more people pursuing the joys of fishing bamboo.
That "list" of good and bad rods was published in 1997 and again in 2002.
"He started off in the wood-turning trade." Profile on Fred Thomas, 1906
Author: Successful Shark Fishing (1996) Classic & Antique Fly Fishing Tackle (1997, 2002) The Demon's Door Bolt (2011) Forging the Blade (2012)
Where can I find the lists you refer to. I haven't been able to find them on this site. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place. Thank you in advance.
So. Say I have a vintage, for argument’s sake, Southbend 291 pack rod, sold only with a single tip.
And I wanted a second tip. I could cut down a sacrificial tip from a longer rod from the same company, and work up ferrule and windings. And Bingo?
So. Say I have a vintage, for argument’s sake, Southbend 291 pack rod, sold only with a single tip.
And I wanted a second tip. I could cut down a sacrificial tip from a longer rod from the same company, and work up ferrule and windings. And Bingo?
Guess you can find an SB 290 and give it a go? But that is the same overall length, so maybe doesn’t exactly address your question. Should give you another tip for the 291 though.
Last edited by Mahseer on 10/11/21 16:40, edited 1 time in total.
Hi Guys, Years ago I did a tip for a friends 291. It was a longer tip from an unknown rod that had the correct taper and color. My friend had, when he was a child, been fishing from a boat with his father, handed the rod, which he reeled in and in and still more reeling in, so that.... Since the discussion here touched on the fact that production companies used limited tapers and the 'cut to length', you may find any number of longer more common rods to kife and use. A 290 should work, but that's a nice rod all by itself. I've always considered them 'the first Wes Jordon Orvis.'
