Who cuts back the tip of their fly lines?

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Drossi
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Re: Who cuts back the tip of their fly lines?

#21

Post by Drossi »

I don't usually but I have a science project to do. I have a full crack and hinge point in my 333 about 8" back from the end. Going to cut it back to and redo my nail knot connection. Then add a braided leader.

PT48
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Re: Who cuts back the tip of their fly lines?

#22

Post by PT48 »

Where the line comes with a loop I leave it that way until the loop starts to fray or crack. Then I cut the loop off and either nail or needle knot a tapered leader onto the fly line (with a dab of superglue on the end). I tie a Lefty's loop onto the end of the leader and loop to loop my tippet sections on. If I don't do something stupid like stand on it with cleats, I generally get a decent life out of the fly line.

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LeeO
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Re: Who cuts back the tip of their fly lines?

#23

Post by LeeO »

Ok, I am lost on this one. I have never seen a DT or WF with a level tip. They wouldn’t have a taper if that were the case. Lines have a foot of reduced diameter. I would never cut that off. Doing so would turn it into a level line.
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Brooks
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Re: Who cuts back the tip of their fly lines?

#24

Post by Brooks »

Lee,
Ok here’s a crude schematic using key strokes of a Double Taper line

-<============>- Let’s say this line length is 80 feet with six foot front (and rear tapers):
The symbol:
=== section is the belly, approximately 68 feet
< is back taper, six feet
> is front taper, six feet
- is level line, six *inches* (at both ends on a DT)

All lines are made on a continuous big spool of (let’s say 50) lines and have level sections (-) between them to separate them.

The line ‘technician’ at the factory spools up (winds with a machine) by hand and feel, the lines. By *feel* with the line running thru their hands, they feel the level section and cut the line there.

SA, in the past, left 6 inches of level line (for you to mess with) at the end of each line.

Now that they loop all their lines, I believe they have less level line at the end of their tapers.
Capeesh?
Last edited by Brooks on 02/27/20 11:31, edited 1 time in total.

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LeeO
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Re: Who cuts back the tip of their fly lines?

#25

Post by LeeO »

I might be getting confused on the use of “level”. With regard to fly lines level means untapered the entire length. Traditional DT and WF have a very short taper followed by a short length of smaller diameter line at the tip. For standard WF and DT lines these dimensions are identical for the first 30’. I have never been aware of any extra length to cut off at the tip. Doing so would cut the line back to the belly making a level line. I have been fly fishing for almost 40 years and have never heard of doing this outside of TT lines.
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Brooks
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Re: Who cuts back the tip of their fly lines?

#26

Post by Brooks »

Again, the level section separates the lines in the manufacturing process.
It has to be there, or the technician might chop into the “money” part of the line when cutting them for packaging.

50 years here ;-)

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LeeO
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Re: Who cuts back the tip of their fly lines?

#27

Post by LeeO »

Is this level section the same diameter as the tip section of the tapered line? Again, I have never seen a line that didn’t appear to match lengths specified by the manufacturer. Outside of level lines all have a smaller diameter tip section separated by a short reducing section. Cutting back the smaller diameter tip will impact how a line turns over. I’ll need to measure a few lines tonight
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Brooks
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Re: Who cuts back the tip of their fly lines?

#28

Post by Brooks »

Lee, I’m talking 6 inches. Of level line. To separate them.
It won’t hurt if you cut it off. It won’t hurt if you leave it.

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LeeO
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Re: Who cuts back the tip of their fly lines?

#29

Post by LeeO »

I am still not following you with what you describe as level lines. Tapered fly lines have a tip section that is uniform diameter and smaller diameter than the belly. This section of smaller, uniform diameter line is not extra. At least not that I am aware of. The front tapered segment on a standard DT and WF is pretty short.
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Brooks
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Re: Who cuts back the tip of their fly lines?

#30

Post by Brooks »

Let’s see if I can paint the picture:
The core of the line (in most floating brands) is a hollow multi-filament, kite-stringy looking, fiber.

This core material is several thousand yards on a spool. When it runs vertically through the coating machine that applies the “goop” (PVC, microballons, other additives), a computer operates, basically, an aperture-like device, that controls the thickness of the goop as it is applied to the core (whilst keeping the core centered, which is quite a cool feat).

So a level section of goop is applied, it builds up to whatever the front taper has been programmed to be, which is usually a section of 6 to 9 feet long on a trout line (this is the section I think you are confusing with what I call the ‘tip’ or level section), this front taper (or could be rear taper) ends at the belly, the thickest part of the line,and goop is evenly controlled and applied, and on (for our example) a DT, it reverses the process ending in level line which goes on until the process starts over again, and again, and again. Until 50 lines (or whatever) are wound on one big plastic spool.

Then this big spool is loaded onto the small consumer single line spools, by hand (with a winding machine), the technician cuts the line at the level sections, leaving, for our discussion, six inches of level line.

The continuous 50 line spool looks like this:

-<======>—-<======>—-<======>—-<======>—-

The cut single lines look like this: —<======>—

Clear as mud?

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Brooks
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Re: Who cuts back the tip of their fly lines?

#31

Post by Brooks »

I should add one important note: different makers have different standards.
So when in doubt mic the tip section if you are curious. Since they are cut by hand, the level section could be 1” or 3” or 6” etc. depending on who’s designing, and who’s cutting the individual lines from the bulk spool.

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Re: Who cuts back the tip of their fly lines?

#32

Post by ozarkwater »

Brooks wrote:I should add one important note: different makers have different standards.
So when in doubt mic the tip section if you are curious. Since they are cut by hand, the level section could be 1” or 3” or 6” etc. depending on who’s designing, and who’s cutting the individual lines from the bulk spool.
Interesting indeed. Certainly something to think about.

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Re: Who cuts back the tip of their fly lines?

#33

Post by LeeO »

Rio has a good video on how their lines are made. They have a 2” bump between sections of line that is removed.
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Brooks
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Re: Who cuts back the tip of their fly lines?

#34

Post by Brooks »

Yep. As do the other companies. That’s how the line winder can feel, as the line goes through their hand, when the last line ends and the new line begins.

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Re: Who cuts back the tip of their fly lines?

#35

Post by DUCKMANNM »

I have several reels with the lines cut off in the front, and several reels with the whole line. Some of my bamboo rod cast well with the "whole" line and the ones that don't, I use the trimmed line! I try to always pair that rod and reel!

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Re: Who cuts back the tip of their fly lines?

#36

Post by davemaine »

Cortland Sylk advertises 2 feet of "level tip" in their taper diagram.

AFTMA standards dictate that the designated line weight is the first 30 feet minus any level tip.

This may be why Cortland Sylk seems to feel "light" for its stated syze (see what I did there?).

I'm actually thinking of cutting most of that level tip off my 6 weight Sylk to help with turnover and give the line a weightier feel in short casts.

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Re: Who cuts back the tip of their fly lines?

#37

Post by ozarkwater »

davemaine wrote:Cortland Sylk advertises 2 feet of "level tip" in their taper diagram.

AFTMA standards dictate that the designated line weight is the first 30 feet minus any level tip.

This may be why Cortland Sylk seems to feel "light" for its stated syze (see what I did there?).

I'm actually thinking of cutting most of that level tip off my 6 weight Sylk to help with turnover and give the line a weightier feel in short casts.
davemaine: Makes sense all round. Thank you.

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Re: Who cuts back the tip of their fly lines?

#38

Post by billems »

I can't stand the molded loops on modern lines. They get cutoff, pronto. The level part between lines can be more or less than six inches. Only a micrometer can tell where the taper starts. You can get a hinge in your tip section that will diminish accuracy, though I'm not sure how badly. If the line shows that tendency, I'll cut a couple inches off it. I usually find the sweet spot.

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Re: Who cuts back the tip of their fly lines?

#39

Post by billems »

The level section beyond the tip is often more or less than six inches. AK Best measures the level section to find where the taper stars. He cuts off the rest of the level part. Too long of a level tip, he argues, puts a hinge in his cast.

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Re: Who cuts back the tip of their fly lines?

#40

Post by DUCKMANNM »

I have never been a fan of the loop to loop method, whether it be on fly lines to leader butts, or to leader to fly line. Whenever I have tried to fish that way, the loops always pick up a bunch of crud, no matter how clear the water looks, or is. I still use barrel knots for about everything. If you're worried about the knots getting hung up on guides, or whatever, coat the knots with Pliobond! It dries semi hard and makes a smooth transition for the knots to pass through anything that they might hang up on!

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