Does Line Weight Really Matter?

[carl otto]

Please read carefully;

When on a river/stream with current flow, does your line weight really matter (of course matched correctly to the rod you're using)? With the properly size and length leader coupled with the appropriate cast can not one place a fly on the water without noticeable disturbance to a fish?

Carl

[jeffkn1]

1)Not as much as it did before the advent of graphite composites.
2)Out of respect for the laws of physics, and having a disdain for being hit in the back of the head by a #4 on my forward cast, I learned long ago that there are limits to what you can do with any given line weight because leader and cast adjustments can only compensate for so much. That conclusion came from pushing the envelope in real experiences on the water. When you travel with an armload of rods, you have some options. When you're a mere mortal with an arsenal of one rod, you figure out workarounds. For me though, it's been somewhat like the roomful of monkeys/typewriters/great works of literature analogy; given enough time I can figure out a solution to a problem full of mismatches.
Cleverness be damned, if your big dry is too sparse it can't be compensated for with tippet or cast. Least I don't think it can.

[mer]

Carl, Jeff very interesting.
For me the answer to the question is "Yes, but...." and the but part feeds into what Jeff is saying.

I think line weight feeds into size of fly: that #4 could be cast with a 3wt line but I think you'd need a lot of line length out to make it work (or a lot of line speed) because the energy feeds into the cast.

I know that when I've fished something that is really too big for a given line weight I wind up rolling my cast a bit more. Kind of like what Lee Wulff talks about or some of the stuff Schwiebert talks about in Trout. Constant pressure on the line, ovalized casting stroke.

I also tend to not go much above a 9-10 ft leader because I like to have a little bit of line out.

[cdmoore]

Go straight to the extremes on this one: 00wt vs 15wt. Change your leader, tippet, rod and fly as desired (the rules). Does the thought experiment change anyone's view?

[Brooks]

Where I notice that line weight matters the most is drift boat fishing--casting to the bank from a driftboat. If there's a breeze, and you're throwing big bugs, it's like a monkey making love to a football having a line size (and matching rod) that is too small.

Wading in streams, you're right, I think you can "MacGyver" your way through most problems. In fact it's a fun challenge most times.

The other scenario where line size really matters of course is salt fishing. It would be pretty frustrating to cast a merkin to a permit with a four weight. And dangerous too. You'd probably get in a knife fight with the guide ;-)

[mer]

Go straight to the extremes on this one: 00wt vs 15wt. Change your leader, tippet, rod and fly as desired (the rules). Does the thought experiment change anyone's view?

100ft of 00wt equals 30ft of 15wt?

[galt]

No.
Yes.
The only situation where I could possibly make an argument for a lower line weight would be clear still water; but, still water would imply no wind. No wind should imply no reason for an imperfect cast. A perfect cast would imply the ability to lay out a 6 as well as a 3, so, no again to the first question.

I believe many have some sort of drive to seek light tackle. I also believe light lines can hinder a persons options if forced to use just one set-up. I personally would err on the heavier side as the ability to send larger flies into a wind gives more presentation options. I also believe heavier lines require less input from the caster so casting becomes easier or less fatiguing. No data; just opinion.

Galt

[czkid]

Carl, From a straight physics standpoint yes it makes a difference. Given that heavier weight lines have a larger diameter and generally a different speed they will hit the water with a greater impact, thus causing a greater commotion AT THE POINT OF IMPACT. Does that make any difference 5 feet of drift later??? You'd probably need to ask the fish.

Ralph

[16pmd]

Seems to me you can take that question in two ways:

Can you use a light line rod to cast big/heavy flies? I think the answer is clearly no. Hoppers,
stonefly nymphs, bobbers and beadhead(s) don't work well with 4 wts.

Can you use a heavy line rod to cast small flies? I think you can, at least up to a point, by adjusting leader length and size. Many years ago I experimented one day with using an 8 1/2' 8 wt. rod to cast #16-18 dries to risers on the Henry's Fork. I lengthened the leader by a couple of feet and still used the 6X tippets I normally use with a 4 or 5 wt. outfit. No problem at all, except I had to be a little careful playing the fish to protect the tippet. Splashdown was definitely not a problem because I was straightening the line in the air without overpowering the cast. Also, the longer leader made the impact of the line a few feet farther away from the fly and even farther from the fish.

[DaveNJ]

One thing no one has mentioned is the diameter of the line. Sure, I could fish a blue wing olive hatch with a 7wt, but if the water is glassy a 4wt line will be more subtle.

[Greg Reynolds]

If you can't catch trout with a 6-weight rod, it's unlikely you'll catch them with a 4-weight rod.

[perfesser]

.

[One&Duns]

+2... but I'd rather catch the fish on a 4 wt - unless I was on a big fish river. There, I'd want the 6 wt.

[PT48]

For many years I was of the opinion that the weight of the fly line really did matter. This was because I fished streams that suffered low flow rates in summer and in times of (seemingly omnipresent) drought. Now I have a slightly different opinion - I incline to the view that a four weight bamboo rod has sufficient delicacy to be able to handle most low water situations (and in truth a five is not far behind and can probably cast a slightly longer leader). The other great advantage with a four is that it has authority enough to enable fish to be brought to the net quickly and released without too much harm. A consequence of this belief is that my three weight has spent many years in the wardrobe unused. Oh well.
P.s. I also think that the colour of the fly line should be a factor in this discussion.

[MtBrittany]

16pmd’s experiment answers it all.

[bluesjay]

Hi Guys, Maybe, but:

http://www.classicpowellrod.com/Walton_Powell.html

Jay Edwards

[Adamsdry]

Carl,
I've read your post carefully, and leaving the variable of fly size, along with many others, out of the equation, I would say no, line weight does not matter.
czkids' point of the 5 foot drift says it all.
You should be able to place a cast without any disturbance to targeted fish regardless of line size/weight. Don't we all spend the time reading waters currents, seams, and eddies before we cast a line? Then we decide what type of, and where to place the, cast. Isn't this to insure a proper presentation? I would add that I would rather be over-gunned than under in most fishing situations.
I'm sure those that fish 8wts. for Bones, Redfish, or Permit can lay down a pretty stealthy line when they need to.

D

[BigTJ]

Carl,

Of course line weight doesn’t matter if you are just casting the leader. Your question is a bit unclear but I’m pretty sure that is your question. Only the fly touches the water so if the leader can put the fly where you need it a 7 wt and 2 wt will do an equal job.

For the delivery and control. of that kind of presentation what matters is the length and flexibility of the rod. A short stout rod will seriously underperform a long hollowed rod with the right blend of flexibility.

The action also matters an 8 wt stiff rod would be a nightmare for fishing that situation as well.

For short line control nothing bamboo holds a candle to graphite. A 10’ or 11’ 3 wt will fish circles around any bamboo rod when short lining. Dry or wet or a streamer. The line weight doesn’t matter but the action stiffness and flex pattern, along with the overall weight of the rod, totally matters.

Last thing - my rule of fishing is to do everything possible to fish with only the fly touching the water. If at all possible I keep the leader off the water. It’s the best way possible to eliminate drag.

[DUCKMANNM]

Here's a good question about fly lines?? With about 72 different fly lines to choose from, how do you know which one to buy to try on your rod?

[Gnome]

if your rod is capable of throwing very tight loops with a point the wind matters much less if the rod will not throw a tight (Aerodynamic) loop it will struggle with the wind no matter the weight of the line.

throw a big wide loop into the wind and then compare it to throwing a loop with a point into the wind. HUge difference

I regularly fish a 7' 4wt on the lower gunny and that is big water with the potential for very large fish

It is in a large part due to "Who is driving that rod and what is their experience?" I disagree with PMD16's statement about 4 wts and big flys and can prove him wrong just come fish with me on the lower gunny!!

Or come fish the spring pike splurge with me when I am fishing "Thumper" who has counted coup on well over 200 pike in the 30"+ class and even 6 fish over 40" on that SCOTT G802 named "Thumper" with his best landed at 46" and that was a male that was with the female that I was chasing and I know that fish was 5' plus, right at the length of my shortest cats pontoons. Truth can be stranger than fiction as most who have fished with me know. As close to Tarpon fishing as I can get here in Landlocked Colorado