Casting error

[Eric Peper]

Charles Ritz: "zic zic".

In 1971 I was lucky enough to have attended an 80th birthday celebration for Charles Ritz at The Williams Club in NYC, which was then the luncheon home of the Theodore Gordon Flyfishers. After the lunch (and a cocktail or two), Charles got up on a table with the tip section of a rod and a reel and demonstrated "high speed-high line" for the assembled admirers, with a rapid fire instructional commentary delivered in "English as spoken by the French." It was absolutely hysterical -- particularly when you realized this diminutive gentleman was 80 years old and acting and moving and talking like a teenager. I'll never forget that day.

Eric

[Minnesota]

Ok, I’ve seen Joan Wulff’s video, an Orvis instructional video, and several Mad River instructional videos. It seems to me that they all are teaching the same basic casting techniques.

You start with the line out straight, then the forearm moves smoothly to get the line moving, at the ten o’clock position, keeping the elbow steady as a fulcrum, the forearm moves to the 1 o’clock position with a quick movement at the end of this movement to accelerate the cast and create a tight loop. This is the back cast. The forward cast repeats the back cast, but down rather than up and brings the rod to the 10 o’clock position with a quick movement just before stopping the cast, Joan Wulff’s wrist snap. Then the rod can be allowed to continue to the 3 o’clock position.

Does that sound correct. Is there something I missed? Any suggestions are welcome!

[jacknoir]

I guess the rod would continue to the 9 o'clock position at the end (based on your previous clock face orientation) but, Bye George, I think you've got it!

[Minnesota]

Yeah, I suppose the clock time depends on whether one is looking at the caster or is the caster. I am still occasionally getting a snap on the back cast. I think that is from not letting the loop straighten completely on the back cast. Thanks.

[ted patlen]

There are many factors that will effect the cast so trying to figure it out, without seeing you cast is difficult at best.

One instruction that some newcomers find helpful is that the rod tip must travel in a straight line...from the target, through the tiptop, to the end of the back cast. It doesn't matter if you are right or left handed, sidearm, overhead, or roll casting...

[Minnesota]

Here is a video of me casting after viewing some of the videos that have been suggested. Any comments pro or con?

https://www.flickr.com/gp/147229514@N08/85c78g

[Loogie]

You are not moving you elbow and shoulder at all, to me it looks like you are casting with your wrist exclusively. In order for the rod to move along a same plane as you move the rod, I would recommend to incorporate movement from your elbow and shoulder to move that rod aft and forward.
What you are doing will work on a basic level, but when you are on or in a river, you will need to incorporate more of what I mentioned.
Looking good!

[jacknoir]

I'd second what Loogie is saying. If you watch the Joan Wulff demo, she brings her elbow up a bit as the hand goes back to around the ear level, and then goes back down leading the forearm and hand forward before the forward power snap.

[roycestearns]

As a beginner, lock your line down with your right hand on the grip, you're wasting rod energy on your forward cast by holding the line in your left hand. By holding the line in your left hand, on your back cast it almost acts like a haul, but on your forward cast the line behind you is not really engaged until the slack between your rod and left hand come close together wasting the forward cast energy.

[thegubster]

Here is a video of me casting after viewing some of the videos that have been suggested. Any comments pro or con?

https://www.flickr.com/gp/147229514@N08/85c78g

You have "my problem" and it's so simple to see but a bugger to make work...if you're a bit of a tough sell as I seem to be.

You're not stopping the rod high enough, as in you're going too far back!! The line sinks past "the horizontal" in back of you. That alone diminishes the load on the rod on that backcast and buggers up your forward presentation. To cure, it's simple, stop the rod at your ear ..... no further back! Now make that happen!!

As in, it's not a "back cast" per se, but an "up-cast"! Make that happen every time. If your line sinks, your rod's not getting properly loaded. Ideally you "should" "feel" that line tug just a wee bit ( a really "wee" bit!) as she loads your rod.

To put it another way, if your line sinks below the horizontal your cast will suffer...plain an' simple!

I'm repeating myself here, as much for myself as for you! After 20 yrs it's still an issue for me....a bloody slow learner, obviously!

I have to get to bed. If I start going over this again and again it's tough drifting off! I have years of this bad habit and it's not simple to stop. When I do (and it feels odd too!!) the cast goes much better.

Control your forward loop, don't push her b/c she'll "tail" on you and strive to make the presentation co-planar...
Another video for yourself will help you tons. I've found that out!

Good luck, you're actually doing much better than you first described!

[DrLogik]

Notice that your rod tip and hand follow an arc, not a straight line to the target? That is your main issue. If the rod follows and arc downward on the backcast, it will throw the line toward the ground. If the rod follows an arc downward on the forward cast it can pile-up the line.

You're casting stroke is what Joan would call "wristing". Mostly wrist and little arm. Her video describes this and how to correct it. Basically you need to focus on your arm and hand following a straight line to the target like it is attached to a rail.

[St Vrain Angler]

Minnesota,

I have nothing to add to the suggestions you've already received about your casting technique. However, after watching your video, I have some related advice: If the woman struggling with the garbage can in the background is related to you, you might want to postpone casting practice until you've helped with the chores. Don't ask me how I know.

[DonT]

Hold the rod so that the very bottom of it is touching your forearm below your wrist. Cast with that part of the rod still touching your arm at all times. You are using all wrist, which is very typical of anyone who has fished with spinning gear for years, and which included me for a long time. This will cause all the problems you are describing. Work on casting without breaking your wrist. Fly shops sell a strap which you can use to lock the rod to your forearm to correct this but what I described above has worked for me. Also the rod must also come to an abrupt stop on both the forward and back cast, as if you were flicking a tomato from the end of the rod, as Mel Krieger described it. BTW his book on casting is really good and is not that expensive on Amazon. Good luck

[jacknoir]

DonT, I'm going to respectfully disagree. Not because Joan Wulff disagrees with not using your wrist at all, which she does, but because using the wrist "snap" she and others describe works for me. The first casting lesson I ever had (after having been fly fishing since my adolescence) was from Harry Murray in Virginia with the local TU group. They had us use a broom handle with a long piece of yarn to experiment with a range of wrist and elbow motions from none to way too much. The idea was to see the effect on the loop during the cast. As previous commenters on this thread have noted, one of the keys is controlling the loop. If never using any wrist action allows you to control the loop then more power to you. It doesn't work for me. Sometimes you want to be able to throw an open loop. For example with a side-arm cast then you are trying to get the fly to curve around a rock or obstruction.

[Minnesota]

Minnesota,

I have nothing to add to the suggestions you've already received about your casting technique. However, after watching your video, I have some related advice: If the woman struggling with the garbage can in the background is related to you, you might want to postpone casting practice until you've helped with the chores. Don't ask me how I know.

She is my across the street neighbor and probably at least 40 years younger. She has a husband who probably doesn’t want me particularly close to her...just saying.

[Brooks]

No wrist movement is good for working on keeping your rod tip on plane, but eventually you’ll want to learn how to bring your wrist into the cast. It’s like taking the heavy practice donut swing weight off of the baseball bat for getting the real power. IMO, you’ll never have a smooth easy powerful cast without using your wrist in the mix.

[DonT]

Hey guys,

Yeah I was just trying to get him started with casting 101, and everything you are saying is valid as skills progress. From the video he needs way less wrist and much more arm. No real argument with what you are saying. I will say that the other day I was standing waist deep in a lake shooting an intermediate sinking line with a beadhead leech attached and I had to keep reminding myself to keep casting with the rod bottom jammed up against my forearm to prevent trailing loops.

[Capt. Frank]

Wrist casting takes the power from your cast, because it prevents an abrupt stop. Keeping the rod against your forearm is great advice, then use Lefty's "speed up and stop", instead of a wrist snap. Remember, although Joan Wulff was a good caster and instructor, her technique is a bit dated. Lefty Kreh developed the modern casting technique, which great casters like Ed Jaworski, Flip Pallot, and others use today.

[Minnesota]

Is this better?

https://www.flickr.com/gp/147229514@N08/8mXJu2

[thegubster]

Is this better?

https://www.flickr.com/gp/147229514@N08/8mXJu2

We can't see your line on the fore-cast/presentation loop as it's out of the picture.

I still see you not stopping the rod by your ear...as in not vertical enough. The line then sinks below horizontal in the back and you lose the much needed rod load when that happens.

Turn you head as you practice to see this. It's very important to not lose that rod load otherwise your forward cast suffers... You'll find you'll need to give the for-cast some oomph for distance then...she'll tail!