Small stream/strong winds rod recs

[galt]

With all respect due, I am not trying to be snarky.
Isn't delicacy a factor of casting skill/technique? Trying to throw a light line and fly in windy conditions and have the fly present with a delicate landing requires one to be at the top of ones game. Not the wand but the magician. Aren't Western high country streams mostly broken water? Aren't still waters rippled in the wind? If it is windy or a disturbed surface, why the need for delicacy? I would think accuracy would trump delicacy. Add line speed and/or line weight and the laws of physics become more permissive; but..... a rod still does not cast itself. If Tiger Woods and I trade clubs, I think you could predict the results.

Galt

[snorider]

AMEN! Splash down is a sign of success in some settings.

[Sandan]

Y'all might want to think about shortening or using a bit stiffer leader. Getting the line through the wind sure counts but if your fly blows back cause the leader didn't turn over in the wind.....

[carl otto]

Leon Hanson developed 8'3" and 8'6", 2/2, 3-4 WT hollow built rods for fishing the Henry's Fork. Once while at a gathering there, many were amazed at how well they cast into the 20 some mph wind blowing into our faces in the casting yard that day with a 12 foot 6X leader attached to the line. On top of that they weighed right around 2.6 ounces finished! These hollow built tapers by Leon and the other handful of notables are improvements over the work of the past and would fit more specifically into the desires of the original poster IMHO.

Carl

[japhy0508]

Just joining this party and wanted to add comment to what Galt had stated about water surface conditions when it's really windy. I was up in the Sierras last fall (early Oct) and there was a significant wind event when up there.....I've never seen a water spout pull water right off the middle of a Sierras lake, but that amongst other things were going down throughout the day....pretty exciting. This is a region that when calm is like glass, and goldens prowl the shallows....light and delicate, well ahead of said cruisers is critical. I used a small 3/4wt rod with a 150gr OPST head and while not generating "huge" speed, it was made up for in droves with MASS. I was able to wait out the gusts and still get hopper and dropper to land "about" where I wanted and catch fish all day. Either through velocity or shear mass are you going to hit targets in wind. I don't think delicacy is of primary focus in such circumstances.....it's almost like signal to noise ratio....if the whole surface of the water is broken because the wind is howling, the fly landing more aggressively may actually be the signal to recognize that something actually is happening worth noting as a food source. Just my 2 cents.....

I can't comment on rods other than in general those that are able to generate high line speeds. How you generate that is up to debate around tapers.

[DrLogik]

I have a Thramer 7 1/2 foot 4 weight swelled butt taper rod that I built from one of A.J.'s blanks years ago. With a matching 4 DT silk line it is like shooting a crossbow in windy conditions. Very accurate and easy to cast.

Your casting stoke is also important. I'm sure you know this already but just in case you don't, if facing the wind if you make a higher than normal back cast so that when the wind takes the line it won't throw it too low onto the ground or water. If you do a regular back cast, a headwind can throw the line down too low to make a good forward cast. The higher back cast also helps create more line speed too.

[Gnome]

So far it has mostly been about the rods when you should;

Learn to throw a tight (2" or less) pointed loop and then fear no wind!! Tight pointed loops are very aerodynamic and cut the wind, do this with a 2-4 wt and you have less resistance due to line size which means it will cut through the wind better than a larger line size. IMHO

Big fat lines and wide loops are the bane of anglers fishing in the wind. Tighten your loops up first and foremost to fight the wind.

a Torzite guided rod does not hurt either!! Less friction equals more line speed and tied with a sharp pointy loop increases your efficiency in fighting the wind.

It comes down to the one on the end of the rod and their acquired skills fighting the wind. Throw a very tight loop with a point and fear no wind.

The tightest loops come from walking the edge of disaster in a cast, this is acheived by being right on the edge of throwing a tailing loop, 80 or 85 degrees in the cast instead of 90 degrees(10:30 and 1:30 instead of ten and two). shorten the stroke and your loop gets tighter and when you throw a short enough stroke and you tail you have went to far in tightening up your casting stroke, open up slightly from that point and you will be throwing pointed loops that are extremely efficient and aerodynamic.

a couple of copper pieces from the heretic gnome,

Time spent practicing is priceless when you translate that time to the water.

You're there when you can throw a pointed 1-2" tall loop that has parallel lines top and bottom. And then you fear NO wind!!

[NewUtahCaneAngler]

Gnome,

Surely you must mean feet and not inches!

[Bud]

This is such an interesting discussion. And there are so many factors that go into excellent casting. Truth is, dealing with wind takes excellent casting fundamentals, which lead to tight loops and high linespeed. Which lead to accurate casts. Like any athletic skill, casting a fly well requires timing, balance, hand eye coordination, and a reasonable amount of strength. Much like a golf swing. Practice, practice, practice. That’s where accuracy and control come from. So, IMHO, the rod best suited for fishing in the wind is the rod and line combination capable of generating the most line speed with the line you want to use. The rest depends on the ability of the caster. I have personally found silk lines excellent in the wind. They also don’t get blown around on the water.

[japhy0508]

Good point Gnome....your casting skills and how they perform are crucial as well. WRT big fat lines, I think you can still punch out reasonably tight loops (not 2") with modern microskagit/scandi lines, but you just have to factor in how delicate the landing that is required and what payload is attached. E=1/2mv^2.....so you can achieve kinetic energy through mass or velocity with a nod to the latter because of ^2.....the tight loops helps take care of aerodynamic challenges as soon as the line leaves the tip. Haha.....torzites....I'm on the wagon....gonna pick up a set when my next build is underway.

[jim royston]

Fish with one line size heavier on the same rod

[billems]

Graphite.

[Gnome]

Gnome,

Surely you must mean feet and not inches!

you gotta be kidding right? 2 INCHES or less pointed loops are extremely aerodynamic and efficient whereas a 2 foot loop is so far from aerodynamic it is not even comprehensible by this gnome. 2 foot tall loops are for the least experienced fly caster and they should learn not to throw them right away unless required. The tighter the loop the more efficient it is at cutting wind. Also helps develop more line speed due to less wind drag.

[DrLogik]

A two inch loop really isn't that hard to accomplish. Just tighten your grip and punch your hand forward very late in the cast toward the target and let it come to a snapping stop and let the hand bounce up a little at the end. The line will roll out and about the time it gets to the two inch loop size, the line doubles under itself and bingo, you get a tailing loop that lets your fly land in a pile cast. It's a very effective way to present a free-floating, tangled line to wary trout in windy conditions.

[Short Tip]

A two inch loop really isn't that hard to accomplish. Just tighten your grip and punch your hand forward very late in the cast toward the target and let it come to a snapping stop and let the hand bounce up a little at the end. The line will roll out and about the time it gets to the two inch loop size, the line doubles under itself and bingo, you get a tailing loop that lets your fly land in a pile cast. It's a very effective way to present a free-floating, tangled line to wary trout in windy conditions.

QFT.

A lot of these guys end up with a tailing loop. Not a 2 inch loop in sight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMa6rLpnIeM

[japhy0508]

With all due respect, these folks are totally casting for distance....there is nothing "fishing" about what they are doing really.....it does look fun though. I believe what Gnome is referring to are much shorter casts into wind where line control is far easier.....as DrLogic noted it's that last bit of the follow through that tightens things up....not that I'm an expert by any means, but I know the feeling when practice casting and I go, huh....that was cool.

[Bob G]

What Bud offered...+1.

Good Luck, Bob

[Loogie]

Fish with one line size heavier on the same rod

A heavier line will accomplish the opposite, it will slow the rod down, it has to load more, if you want to minimize wind effect you have to increase line speed. Fishing a lighter line will increase speed, and make the rod faster.

[DrLogik]

My reply added a bit of sarcasm to the discussion...sorry folks. In truth a high back cast and good form following a straight line to target on the forward cast and a good punch/power-snap/etc at the end will get a tight loop. If you exaggerate that (the way I explained in my previous post), you can force a tailing loop. It's a fine line to dance.

[Gnome]

walking the edge of disaster in your cast by being less than 90 degrees in the stroke will tighten up your loop as well as what DR Logic wrote two post earlier.+1 for Dr Logics post above!! and I would be happy to give shorttip a casting lesson and show him how to walk the edge and throw ultra tight loops. just another left handed shot at me by Paul who really has it in for me.

When fishing you want to be able to handle all conditions and being able to throw an ultra tight loop into the wind allows you to fish when others throw up their hands and quit because the conditions are too tough for them. I am talking about fishing here not competition casting. try throwing a 2 foot loop into a 12" underhung opening 30 or 40 or 50 feet away. How well does that competiton cast serve you shorttip????? that is the place where cast with the ultra tight loop are needed and required. And the ability to throw a tight loop comes from a lot of practice and it should be a tool in every anglers bag of casts. IMHO!! and the big wide loop has its place in fishing the fly but NOT when fighting the wind.

Japhy, looking forward to your next build and what you find with it!!!! Good on Ya mate!!