Leader Butt Length Question

[Oxbow]

When I first started fly fishing I used leader butts of around 5 to 8 inches. Since I fish dries a lot I developed a taste for 10 to 12 foot leaders although there are situations where I realize a shorter leader would work better on certain runs. At some point I lengthened my butts to around 15 to 24 inches. Some of my thinking besides wanting a longer than 9 foot leaders is that I don't want line/leader hinges too close to each other that may effect the smooth delivery - say compared to having a leader tied (so no butt section at all) directly to the fly line and then make adjustments to the leader length and tippet size as needed.
So that is a long winded way to ask - What do you think is the best butt length to use? Asking because I noticed on one of my reels today the butt section was at least 2 feet long. While I don't think a longer butt has a negative effect to it, possibly it does and I am not aware. On the other side I think a too short butt section has the hinges too close to each other. What are your thoughts?

[DrLogik]

I knot my own leaders as well. For leaders over 12 feet long I go with a 70/20/10 ratio instead of the standard 60/20/20 ratio. Meaning 70% butt, 20% mid and 10% tippet. I also follow the softer is better logic for butt mono. I use the softest butt material I can find. I still have a little bit of the old Dai Riki Velvet mono left. It's been out of production for years now but was the softest mono I ever found. I find the 70/20/10 formula with soft butt mono turns a long leader over better for me especially with weighted nymphs.

I used to use the Mason's Hard Mono but figured out after reading George Harvey or Joe Humphrey's (I can't recall which) thoughts on soft versus hard mono that the soft mono turned over better for me also.

On one river I fish, the South Holston in Tennessee I use a 16 foot leader. It follows my 70/20/10 with 11 feet of soft butt, 3 feet of mid and 2 feet of tippet. That 11 feet of butt is not just one section, it is made up of the two (sometimes 3) thickest mono's.

[Caneghost]

A lot depends upon the line weight you fish, the type of water, and your tackle and casting style. Fishing smaller waters in PA, I was a steady user of George Harvey formula dry fly leaders built with a shorter, lighter butt section of hard mono with a steady taper. The formulas have been published plenty of times, but if I recall correctly: 12" of 0.017" dia., 18" of 0.015, 18" of 0.013 and 18" of 0.011, there transitioning to the hinge section of soft mono and continuing with that 12" of 0.009 (2X), 12" of 3X, 18" of 4X and then a 5X tippet of 24" to 36" for a leader of 11' to 12'. They work wonderfully when you use the proper casting technique, stopping your rod high on the delivery then lowering the tip as the leader turns over. The formula can be adjusted for shorter overall leaders, simply keep the proportions close to the standard. I have built them with 8", 12", 12", 12" butts and an 8" hinge, etc. for smaller wild trout waters. The Harveys were hands down the best answer for the small, weedy spring creeks of the Cumberland Valley and that limestone region. They do not work out nearly as well on wide open, windy waters.

On larger windier rivers like those here in the Catskills, I tend toward using a 9' or 12' knotless tapered leader and add 3' to 4' of tippet, so a 12' 4X leader with 3 to 4' of 5X for a 15 to 16' leader. Knotless leaders vary, but all I have used have a much longer, heavier butt section. I have even used the Power Taper leaders from Umpqua and Rio in 9' 3X with a 3' to 3.5' 4X tippet added for Hendricksons here in the spring when the flies are size 12 and 14 and the winds horrendous. The same casting technique achieves the controlled slack in the tippet and drag free presentation. You can build a shorter overall leader by using a 6' or 7 1/2' knotless with a long tippet too.

The only way to find what setup works the best for your fishing is to try things and experiment a bit. The ideas above demonstrate that both a short butt approach and a long butt can work very well for the same angler (me) with subtle adjustments to casting to deal with the conditions of the day.

I hope this gives you some ideas.

[Loogie]

I have been making knotted leaders for a long time, I used to be very precise on the lengths etc. of sections, its more the ratio thats important. What I do find is the material and the length of the tippet is what makes the biggest impact. I have come to the conclusion that soft mono is the best butt material, hands down better over stiffer stuff just like Drlogik mentioned. Now I do prefer knotless leaders in size 3X-6X, its just simpler and less of a hassle than rolling your own, commercial products are really very good and there are lots of choices. Reference my ratios, I keep it simple for saltwater applications and for Smallmouth/Largemouth. 4'/40 lb, 2'/30 lb, 2'/20 lb, 2'/15 mono, If I am fishing a streamer I switch to 2'/15 lb flouro. This ratio allows me to cast all kinds of flies. At the end of the 15lb tippet, I can either add a foot of 35lb bite tippet or taper down to 12 or 10 pound tippet. For situations where I need a light entry into the water, I put 2' of 10 lb after the 15 lb. So My leaders vary in length from 9-12' depending on the situation.

The constant to all this is the butt length . Now transferring that to freshwater is simple since my formula came from freshwater applications like Caneghost mentioned. A nice supple 40 lb butt transfers the energy of the cast very nicely, on trout, I find supple knotless leaders work best for me and my style of casting.

What I do recommend is to avoid very short butts, the butt is what transfers the energy to the leader, when its too short you loose control of your loop. Potential Energy in motion being converted to kinetic energy will work better with a larger mass, hence the larger butt required and taper effect. The smaller the butt the less energy transfer available to the rest of the leader.

[Capt. Frank]

Loogie gives good advice about leader butt length! I use Lefty Kreh's saltwater leader exclusively, it will turn over large heavy flies, for fresh , or saltwater. I use 50 # test for the saltwater butt, and 20 # test for fresh. 50% of the leader is the butt section. For fresh (10 foot leader), 5 ft. 20 #, 1 ft. 16#, 1 ft. 12#, 1 ft. 10#, or 8#, 2 ft. tippet. Even on a graphite 00 weight rod, this leader will turn over size 10 bead head nymphs.

[perfesser]

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[JohnMD1022]

More than 50 years ago, I was building my own leaders using Al McClane’s formula. It was a PITA.

Along came the 10 ft Cortland Twin Tip leaders with a heavy butt section and 2 tip sections. I bought these in 3x and 4x and built them out to 14-16 ft. They were quite satisfactory for the Pennsylvania limestone spring creeks. But as always, if you find something you like, they wii discontinue it, and so , it came to pass.

Then there were the Orvis braided butt leaders. Loved or hated. I found them to be satisfactory, but they too were discontinued. Fortunately, I have a few, plus similar leaders from other sources, and furled leaders serve me well.

[PT48]

My approach is about as lazy as you can get. I purchase tapered leaders of either 9 or 12 feet and tie a Lefty's Loop at the end. I then tie a loop on my tippet and loop to loop a section onto the leader. Tippet lengths vary from 3 to 5 feet. When the tippet is stuffed, I carefully cut it off the leader and attach a new section. I always have a pre-tied loop on the end of my tippet spools which makes swap over easy and eliminates time-wasting fumbling whilst astream. Oh, and the leader is loop to looped onto the fly line. As always, you have to get your knots right but in using the same loop tie throughout one becomes very adept at it-

[Flykuni3]

I'm with you, 48, I use Lefty's loop system. I tie my leaders, and am usually around that 70-20-10 formula, and short. For my short rods I'm usually fishing a leader the length of the rod.