Future of Sweetgrass
Moderators: pmcroberts, uniphasian
Re: Future of Sweetgrass
#23The average fly fisher will never be into bamboo. It will continue to be a niche and possibly a smaller one as those of us with true appreciation for the craftsman of cane dwindle a bit. It's not going to disappear but it's not going to grow either. But arrogance is just as big a deterrent as is the march of time. I think a lot of guys are fine with the fact that we are not really trying to grow the bamboo scene. Just look at how slavishly we stick to the no glass or graphite thing here. Getting into posting here would be a small way in and we shut it down and most guys are fine with that. I get it. I'm happy fishing my cane rods and who cares what happens when i'm dead and gone. It makes sense. And regardless of how we feel, the upper income bracket, which is where most folks reside who are into this stuff ( and that won't change) is not exactly growing either. Regardless of your attitude bamboo is going to stay pretty much as it is - at least for the next 20-30 years.
Re: Future of Sweetgrass
#24I hope the presence in the future is just enough that it keeps a few of us interested, not too many, and it doesn't turn into a bustling trend that results in logo'd hats, t-shirts, window clings, and TV shows with personalities. I'd like to think of it as a thoughtful pursuit that will inspire a few dedicated makers. There will always be a few of us interested in buying their rods.
I honestly don't think it will go the way of Lionel Train collections. Regardless of attitudes.
- RWHoffhines
- Master Guide
- Posts: 898
- Joined: 02/11/10 19:00
Re: Future of Sweetgrass
#26That sounds bad for makers.Brooks wrote: ↑09/11/20 16:10I hope the presence in the future is just enough that it keeps a few of us interested, not too many, and it doesn't turn into a bustling trend that results in logo'd hats, t-shirts, window clings, and TV shows with personalities. I'd like to think of it as a thoughtful pursuit that will inspire a few dedicated makers. There will always be a few of us interested in buying their rods.
I honestly don't think it will go the way of Lionel Train collections. Regardless of attitudes.
I'm not trying to be challenging, but as a younger person I can tell you that there is little to no support for bamboo among my peers and that will not bode well for the future of bamboo. Plus young people, especially millenials, don't have money. We joined the work force in 2008, and not we're at the age where we should be buying homes.... just in time for the next financial crisis.
I tell everyone my age, give or take, to buy Mantras.
Re: Future of Sweetgrass
#27Well, that’s a good attitude, keep it up.DaveNJ wrote: ↑09/11/20 18:31That sounds bad for makers.Brooks wrote: ↑09/11/20 16:10I hope the presence in the future is just enough that it keeps a few of us interested, not too many, and it doesn't turn into a bustling trend that results in logo'd hats, t-shirts, window clings, and TV shows with personalities. I'd like to think of it as a thoughtful pursuit that will inspire a few dedicated makers. There will always be a few of us interested in buying their rods.
I honestly don't think it will go the way of Lionel Train collections. Regardless of attitudes.
I'm not trying to be challenging, but as a younger person I can tell you that there is little to no support for bamboo among my peers and that will not bode well for the future of bamboo. Plus young people, especially millenials, don't have money. We joined the work force in 2008, and not we're at the age where we should be buying homes.... just in time for the next financial crisis.
I tell everyone my age, give or take, to buy Mantras.
Re: Future of Sweetgrass
#28Personally, I don't believe it's a rich man's sport. I'm far from rich and I have several rods that are made by the basement builders. All cost substantially less than modern glass and graphite rods. Further I personally know of at least 75 cane fisher persons that are in the same financial situation as I am. Yes there are many rods in the $2K to $4K range but there are many the are under $700.00.
As far as age that would have to be something that could be researched. The millennial's are the folks that are buying those $900.00 plastic rods so the assumption that don't have the $$$'s doesn't hold water. At the same time they are driving the mid priced rods and reels forward. From reading posts across the internet there are a lot of folks that are just beginning to fly fish. Now most will not continue and they will be just a few tha will ever pick up a cane rod. What I have found if you let a beginner or any fly fisher person fish with a can rod there is a chance that they will come back to cane in the future.
One of deterrents I see often and here on this site is when a person says I bought this rod or I was given this rod and they ask about fishing it. The first thing folks say well it's just a blue collar it doesn't have much value , or it's fairly heavy. Well when this type of description is given it is most likely that person will back away from it. Many times there is no encouragement on fishing the rod. Then during the thread someone will say your really should look at so and so's rods to get the full experience of fishing a bamboo rod. Well that discourages that person and then they get the impression that big dollars have to be spent. IMO.
As far as age that would have to be something that could be researched. The millennial's are the folks that are buying those $900.00 plastic rods so the assumption that don't have the $$$'s doesn't hold water. At the same time they are driving the mid priced rods and reels forward. From reading posts across the internet there are a lot of folks that are just beginning to fly fish. Now most will not continue and they will be just a few tha will ever pick up a cane rod. What I have found if you let a beginner or any fly fisher person fish with a can rod there is a chance that they will come back to cane in the future.
One of deterrents I see often and here on this site is when a person says I bought this rod or I was given this rod and they ask about fishing it. The first thing folks say well it's just a blue collar it doesn't have much value , or it's fairly heavy. Well when this type of description is given it is most likely that person will back away from it. Many times there is no encouragement on fishing the rod. Then during the thread someone will say your really should look at so and so's rods to get the full experience of fishing a bamboo rod. Well that discourages that person and then they get the impression that big dollars have to be spent. IMO.
Re: Future of Sweetgrass
#29Monumental arrogance at its finest.
Better educated in what way? The "average fisherman" is not buying $1000 graphite rods. I fished with a lot of my daughter's friends over the last few years and these guys and girls are fishing Echo, TFO, Reddington, etc. They could care less about a $1000 fly rod. And these people are very well educated. They are physicians, engineers, accountants, actuaries, metallurgists, etc. They just choose to spend their $$ differently.
Did you ever think that maybe those buying the $1000 graphite rods just don't want a bamboo rod?
Last edited by PYochim on 09/11/20 22:53, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Future of Sweetgrass
#30I started making bamboo rods about 15 years ago and it was the hot thing back then. Glass had a resurgence shortly thereafter. Both have have faded since then. Support your local basement maker. They are going to be the ones that carry the tradition forward.
Re: Future of Sweetgrass
#31Relax... no one is checking resumes on the river, guy.PYochim wrote: ↑09/11/20 22:25Monumental arrogance at its finest.
Better educated in what way? The "average fisherman" is not buying $1000 graphite rods. I fished with a lot of my daughter's friends over the last few years and these guys and girls are fishing Echo, TFO, Reddington, etc. They could care less about a $1000 fly rod. And these people are very well educated. They are physicians, engineers, accountants, actuaries, metallurgists, etc. They just choose to spend their $$ differently.
Did you ever think that maybe those buying the $1000 graphite rods just don't want a bamboo rod?
The tears are so real around here, think ill swim back to graphite since its cheaper and landscape architects use it.
-
- Master Guide
- Posts: 408
- Joined: 12/07/12 13:34
Re: Future of Sweetgrass
#32Absolutely yes. My first cane rod was a never used PHY Midge that fell into my hands for $95. That kind of thing never happens, except I was lucky to be the nephew of a woman whose boss wanted to give away his fly rod. I now have maybe a dozen cane rods, won at a raffle, bought at garage sales or estate sales, traded to me for stuff I didn't need anymore, and given to me by basement hobby makers. The Midge, almost 60 years old, is a great rod. A few of the others needed a little TLC before I could fish them, and they now perform very well on our Midwestern streams. I once paid about $400 for a 7 1/2 foot Orvis Battenkill. My average out-of-pocket for a 3, 4, or 5wt cane rod of 7 1/2 feet or shorter is around $100.narcodog wrote: ↑09/11/20 21:22Personally, I don't believe it's a rich man's sport. I'm far from rich and I have several rods that are made by the basement builders. All cost substantially less than modern glass and graphite rods. Further I personally know of at least 75 cane fisher persons that are in the same financial situation as I am. Yes there are many rods in the $2K to $4K range but there are many the are under $700.00.
As far as age that would have to be something that could be researched. The millennial's are the folks that are buying those $900.00 plastic rods so the assumption that don't have the $$$'s doesn't hold water. At the same time they are driving the mid priced rods and reels forward. From reading posts across the internet there are a lot of folks that are just beginning to fly fish. Now most will not continue and they will be just a few tha will ever pick up a cane rod. What I have found if you let a beginner or any fly fisher person fish with a can rod there is a chance that they will come back to cane in the future.
One of deterrents I see often and here on this site is when a person says I bought this rod or I was given this rod and they ask about fishing it. The first thing folks say well it's just a blue collar it doesn't have much value , or it's fairly heavy. Well when this type of description is given it is most likely that person will back away from it. Many times there is no encouragement on fishing the rod. Then during the thread someone will say your really should look at so and so's rods to get the full experience of fishing a bamboo rod. Well that discourages that person and then they get the impression that big dollars have to be spent. IMO.
I have a couple of older "plastic" rods, longer and faster, for fishing trout lakes in the fall. It wouldn't make any sense for me to buy a plastic rod for stream fishing. They're just too expensive, and I like my cane rods.
Some of us do unintentionally discourage people from fishing a cane rod. I try not to do that. I have sold a few very nice no-name cane rods to others for under $100. They fish cane now.
-
- Master Guide
- Posts: 702
- Joined: 08/30/12 11:45
Re: Future of Sweetgrass
#33"What the average fisherman is educated about is what makes him the average fisherman." +1
Some never progress from worm and bobber.
Some never progress from worm and bobber.
Re: Future of Sweetgrass
#34I think it’s always going to be a niche and I’m fine with it. Fishing cane is an esoteric, acquired taste. Some of us are drawn into it for that very reason.
Trout don't live in ugly places...
Re: Future of Sweetgrass
#35And some of us realize that it's simply a stick that we use to put something in the water to fool a fish. It's what we want to FEEL that leads us to choice of material.
Esoteric? Acquired? Maybe for some. My first fly rod was a Loomis GL3 5wt. Second, older Winston IM6 5wt. Third bamboo, SirD taper. Esoteric? Acquired? Nope. First rod never felt "good" until I put an 8 wt on it. Got rid of it. Second rod: felt "almost right", if I had a true 4.5wt line would have been 98% perfect. Third rod: Ahh, this is fly fishing. So by my third rod I knew that bamboo was the material of choice for what I wanted.
Realistically:
someone could probably make a graphite/whatever-ite feel exactly or almost exactly like a Payne 100. So fishing a "cane-based Payne 100" vs a "graphite Payne 100"? Matter of choice.
Every rod material inherently has a different feel. The science says so. Modulus of elasticity, specific gravity, density, all that stuff leads to a different feel. Better, worse, who's to say?
Bamboo is simply one of a bunch of materials to make a fishing stick. Always going to be some folks that think it's better for them. I look at it like cars: there is always a group that loves and understands a small block Chevy with a 4-barrel Holley, others just want to get to work and back.
Re: Future of Sweetgrass
#36So if the average fisherman fishes with a worm and a bobber, what does the above average fisherman use?Capt. Frank wrote: ↑09/12/20 11:44"What the average fisherman is educated about is what makes him the average fisherman." +1
Some never progress from worm and bobber.
Re: Future of Sweetgrass
#37Cheese ball and no bobber.PYochim wrote: ↑09/12/20 13:59So if the average fisherman fishes with a worm and a bobber, what does the above average fisherman use?Capt. Frank wrote: ↑09/12/20 11:44"What the average fisherman is educated about is what makes him the average fisherman." +1
Some never progress from worm and bobber.
Re: Future of Sweetgrass
#38I was listening to the Catskill Rod Makers pod cast today and Jerry was on there. Concerning the future he is hoping to find someone to take over the business and continue the line.
By the way if some of you did not sign up and watch the presentation it was a good experience. I especially enjoyed Bob Summers talk along with Per Brandon.
By the way if some of you did not sign up and watch the presentation it was a good experience. I especially enjoyed Bob Summers talk along with Per Brandon.
- Flyman615
- Bamboo Fanatic
- Posts: 6237
- Joined: 12/21/04 19:00
- Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
- Contact:
Re: Future of Sweetgrass
#39I thought this thread was about Sweetgrass, Glenn, et al? And whether you like to think about it or not, Glenn is just as deserving--if not more so--of enjoying retirement as the rest of us. He's simply not going to be "at the bench" forever, as much as we would like him to be.
And as a friend, when he decides to hang up his apron, I will congratulate him and wish him the very best! He definitely deserves it.
Scott
And as a friend, when he decides to hang up his apron, I will congratulate him and wish him the very best! He definitely deserves it.
Scott
Flyman615
"An undisturbed river is as perfect as we will ever know, every refractive slide of cold water a glimpse of eternity" - Thomas McGuane
"An undisturbed river is as perfect as we will ever know, every refractive slide of cold water a glimpse of eternity" - Thomas McGuane
Future of Sweetgrass
#40Where can we find this podcast?narcodog wrote:I was listening to the Catskill Rod Makers pod cast today and Jerry was on there..