Hi all,
This may be a redundant question, but hopefully someone will have some insight based on knowing the waters I am interested in using this rod for. I have a Payne 100 from Art Parramoure and I built up a hollowed 8013 from a blank Dennis Stone graciously built for me. The 8013 one heck of a fast/powerful rod that I've enjoyed immensely, utilizing it on remote sections of the upper Kern River.....strong fish! The Payne I've enjoyed for it's moderate and delicate presentation in smaller streams. It's shortcoming in my hands is tying on say a #10/12 hopper with a dropper and throw in some wind. I'd like a rod that is in the strong 4wt light 5wt realm in order to fish stuff like in the middle fork of the San Joaquin, Hot Creek, Owens River gorge when they turn the water back on ( ) back country lakes and smaller creeks like Golden Trout which dumps into the Kern. It would have to be in the low 7' to 7' realm I believe in order to fit in some of the tight situations I might find myself in. Seems like from what I've gathered a few of the tapers on the short list are the faster Payne 98, PY Driggs Special 4/5wt and Dickerson 7012. I've not cast a parabolic yet, but am certainly intrigued. Think it would also excel at water born casts in more open settings. Any insight you have would be most appreciated. Don't know anyone in the SoCal area that is into bamboo that would have rods to swap casting in a park with to try other tapers out.
I think a 7012 might nicely fit your parameters. However, based on your earlier success, I would suggest you talk to Dennis Stone, and let him know what you're looking for.
Thank for the feedback! I am in correspondence with him on this as well....these were a few of the taper ideas we've been talking over. I was just interested in throwing a larger net for ideas. I am drawn to the 98 because I enjoy faster tapers so far, however the Driggs sounds very interesting because of its nearly universal regard and forte with roll casting which will likely be more difficult with the 98 unless using a 5wt line to get some load into the rod.
The Payne 98 is a great taper. What you ask is a fairly vexed question. Rod length and weight is one consideration but so too is the sorts of casts that one can employ in a small stream environment - roll casts, water-loaded casts, side casts, back-handed casts to name but a few. My belief is that a seven foot rod represents a nice compromise point.
Hahaha....point taken PT48. Guess I'm realizing that because while modest in water size I'm likely to use this rod in, it needs to reside in the "versatile" camp because some of the waters I mentioned have unique situations where one taper may get the nod at the expense of taking it to another and not quite being "right".....vexing indeed!
Am in So Cal, but of rods you list I have only a 7' Payne 98 to cast with you. I say but because the faster 7'-ers I've cast and have owned and fished have been the 7' Granger, Heddon rods, which I've sold off -- with the Heddon being about the fastest (have cast a friend's Sir D and another's 7012, didn't hear angels sing for me). My 98 is pretty fast for a medium-fast.
For an all-around 7' rod, the Duracane is hard to best in my estimation.
Last edited by Flykuni3 on 09/23/20 00:29, edited 1 time in total.
I would recommend the Driggs taper for what you describe. I recently made a Dickerson 7012 and it left me saying, yeah nice but not what I look for in a rod that length and line weight - to my taste a bit stiffer than need be. The Driggs, if you add a swelled butt is a great rod. But, the taper I have for the Driggs is more of a 5wt. But, a 5wt will do everything a 4wt will do, just better.
Just a reminder that on Hot Creek, the Owens River, and High Sierra a stiff breeze can often come up, particularly in the afternoons, so at those times a rod that will punch into the wind is helpful.
Sounds like I may have a winner in either as they both are in the 4/5wt range, both coming into their own in distinctly different ways. Thanks Flykuni3 for the offer. Wonder how we could make that happen? I'm in Laguna Beach, you? I have the two I mentioned and the last and lovely is a Carlin SH 8'6" 7wt that has spliced ferrules....I build it up as well. Super smooth and bends like a one piece.
I have a few 7'ers and the one I go to most often is the 7' 2/2 4wt. Blackburn hex. It does everything I need done on smaller creeks and streams which is what I fish most often. It handles tiny flies as well as larger hoppers if needed.
Canewrap....interested in knowing how the "swelled butt" compares to without? I've read a little that people will even go to the extend of ventilating the grip in order to maximize that feel of the parabolic nature in this taper....putting a swell in there would push most of the action out of the grip?
The Sweetgrass 7'3" penta 4wt is just about the perfect small stream rod. Hoppers?, no problem, small dry's? it's a dream! long casts? effortless. Just long enough to mend your line on a wide stretch and fast enough to punch a tight loop into a breeze. Jerry and Glenn really re-wrote the book on the perfect small/medium western fly rod with this one. I have a friend with two of em and every one I know who has cast one has nothing but praise. When Luca first let me cast one in Twin Bridges I was instantly HOOKED!
Leave it as it is. The ages have been at work on it and man can only mar it. T.R.
With regards to length, I’ve always felt a bit uncertain as to what is most practical for small mountain streams. A short rod “seems” more intuitive but lacks the ability to roll cast which often is the primary means of casting. I have a wonderful little Garrison 202e 7ft, 4wt that Art Weiler made that is perfect for such streams. I always wondered about a 3wt of a similar length, however, to make little 8” brookies a bit more sporting.
If you are intrigued by pararabolics you might get in touch with Joe Balestrieri (www.redwingflyrods.com). He built me a 7' 9" 2 pc. "long taper parabolic" to swing soft hackles on small/medium streams but it does everything really well for me. It casts a number of 4 and 5 wt. lines well and is a superb roll caster. It casts a short line off the tip very well and the softer tip does a fine job of protecting light tippet. He has a lot of his own tapers and happens at the moment to have a 7'2" Driggs River on his site for sale.
With regards to length, I’ve always felt a bit uncertain as to what is most practical for small mountain streams. A short rod “seems” more intuitive but lacks the ability to roll cast which often is the primary means of casting. I have a wonderful little Garrison 202e 7ft, 4wt that Art Weiler made that is perfect for such streams. I always wondered about a 3wt of a similar length, however, to make little 8” brookies a bit more sporting.
Well, lighter the rod the more fun with small trout, that just stands to reason. I have some very medium, flexible 3-wt 7'-ers, and I would only consider them as small trout rods -- they are really not suited for medium rivers and fish over 12". You'd just wind up abusing the rod and trout. The lite sticks are in the specialty class, and when used rightly in the right, little place, they are a ton of fun. Earlier this season I fished a 7' DT3 FE Thomas Special on a mountain stream, and got bit by a strong 11" brownie in a rushing flow. He ran this way and that, bore deep into a side pocket as I hung on. He wasn't going to injure me or the rod, or break off the strong 6x I had on. It actually became a little scary. But that's the scary that's fun on a small stream. I hope you can find and fish a truly lite rod for your trout. It's fun times.
This fellow in Wyoming's Bighorns was totally fun. 7' DT3 rod made by pal George, rip, 20' cast, strong rise and great fight.
) back country lakes and smaller creeks like Golden Trout which dumps into the Kern. It would have to be in the low 7' to 7' realm I believe in order to fit in some of the tight situations I might find myself in. Seems like from what I've gathered a few of the tapers on the short list are the faster Payne 98, PY Driggs Special 4/5wt and Dickerson 7012. I've not cast a parabolic yet, but am certainly intrigued. Think it would also excel at water born casts in more open settings. Any insight you have would be most appreciated. Don't know anyone in the SoCal area that is into bamboo that would have rods to swap casting in a park with to try other tapers out.
