Cleats...?

[Bill Moschler]

I fell yesterday. Very slick rock in fast run. I was wearing a new pair of Choto felt soles. They felt slicker than my old pair. Both feet went out from under me while I was accessing how to get back from a bad place. My question is what are the pros and cons of adding the tungsten cleats? Do the cleats help on smooth, slick rocks. I am talking about eastern fishing on limestone and round river rocks. Thanks for any insights or suggestions.

Bill

[jim royston]

I wont trout fish without studs on my boots. I recommend the spikes sold for motorcycle ice racing (they're a third of the price of "Flyfishing " studs)

[Flyman615]

Cleats work very well, but depending on the type, they can also easily cut your fly line if inadvertently stepped upon.

Scott

[Webfly]

Tungsten is too hard and has no give. I had an older pair of Danners with tungsten cleats on felt soles and got rid of them because bare felt was better in my opinion. If you must wear cleats, aluminum is more forgiving and grips better.

[mer]

Simms has some cleats/studs (a couple different ones). I've been using the "hardbite" ones which have carbide on them. For me, up here in NH the work pretty well. They also have some that are just aluminum (a little softer, so they'll deform more).
Note: my rock is mostly granite but they get a fantastic coating of slime and vegetation over the summer. Without the cleats, I feel like I'm stepping on highly polished bowling balls.

https://www.simmsfishing.com/shop/gear/ ... cleat-bulk

[creakycane]

Sheet metal screws with hex heads. Buy them by the 100 box in hardware stores with hex heads. Al are pricey, but normal steel work fine. cheap.. Then drive them in with a drill. Cheap/easy, work great. I think I buy #10s in 1/2inch and 3/4 inch hex heads. for sole/heel. respectively.

[Drossi]

Sheet metal screws with hex heads. Buy them by the 100 box in hardware stores with hex heads. Al are pricey, but normal steel work fine. cheap.. Then drive them in with a drill. Cheap/easy, work great. I think I buy #10s in 1/2inch and 3/4 inch hex heads. for sole/heel. respectively.

I've had good luck using sheet metal screws as well. Plus side - they are cheap and softer so they grip better. Downside - they are softer so they wear out quicker and changing them can be a task.

[kimk]

Back when they outlawed felt in Vt. ( now allowed) I started using Orvis carbide cleats on my plastic soled boots. A few of my favorite fishing holes are on the site of mills which are long gone. So the river is filled with rubble and rocks. The cleats are essential as is a good staff. Polaroids also allow you to find a safe passage. The cleats are but one part of a total approach.
Where cleats really shine is going up and down the bank on the river side. Mud or grass, the cleats bite in.
AgMD

[16pmd]

For rocks with some grain or texture, carbide works great, but for smooth, polished rocks aluminum is far better. Sounds like aluminum is what you need. They do wear out faster than harder materials, but get a much better grip on smooth rocks.

[DrLogik]

I have relied on felt soles and tungsten or carbide studs...sheet metal screws actually. They work well most of the time except on smooth rock. As previously stated, they really bite into mud or grass banks to aid in a safer climb. Smooth rocks are where aluminum seems to grip better. Maybe screw in a few aluminum sheet metal screws along with the tungsten or carbide spikes.

I've been meaning to do that but the streams I fish most often felt/carbide works fine. If I were fishing Upstate New York, Adirondacks area, I'd screw in those extra aluminum screws.

[Shrimpman]

Cleats work very well, but depending on the type, they can also easily cut your fly line if inadvertently stepped upon.

+1
I am new to cleats/studs and know I'm going to cut a line on a rock before long.

[GerardH]

I've worn studded felt soles for over 25 years (Hodgmans & Cabela's) and I don't think you could ask for better traction so long as you stayed off ice/snow.

I blew out my Cabela's boots this spring and picked up a pair of Simms with Vibram soles -- I added added a combination of hardbite and alumibite cleats and they've worked great on the limstone cobble in the northern driftless streams but I have yet to test them in our northern freestoners where stream rocks are glacier polished granite, which is much harder than the soft sedimentary rock.

[mer]

My backup pair is Simms, Vibram sole with hardbite cleats. They work on my waters (granite based freestone) but not as well as felts. So treated myself to a new pair of felts this year (really prefer even plain felt over rubber & cleats).

[Hellmtflies]

For rocks with some grain or texture, carbide works great, but for smooth, polished rocks aluminum is far better. Sounds like aluminum is what you need. They do wear out faster than harder materials, but get a much better grip on smooth rocks.

Ditto!

[Loogie]

I use Simms wading shoes, I have the Hardbite cleats with Vibram soles, and they work great, when installed they should have some (minuscule) play in them inside the slots, that way they conform to the terrain better. The guy I bought them from showed me how to install them. They should be snug and they should fit inside their slots, as you wear them they get a little play in them and thats perfect. Definitely better than felt after two seasons on cleats and vibrate soles. I would not go back to felt, not necessary. I would not wade without my cleats installed.

[Salar4me]

Although far from scientific ...hard rock - softer spikes ...hard metal on granite is somewhat akin to ice skating on slick bowling balls

[ctwhite]

Sheet metal screws with hex heads. Buy them by the 100 box in hardware stores with hex heads. Al are pricey, but normal steel work fine. cheap.. Then drive them in with a drill. Cheap/easy, work great. I think I buy #10s in 1/2inch and 3/4 inch hex heads. for sole/heel. respectively.

Similar. I drill 3/8" aluminum screws into rubber soles. More screws under the toe-box, heel and sides of the sole for traction. Very few in the center of the sole for walking comfort over pavement.

[MGrallert]

I hear they're a game changer but they sure do tear up the rocks.

[Brooks]

I've had great luck with the Korkers Alumitrax. Devils Canyon boot is my favorite. And I still plug felt into them where it is allowed. I find the alumitrax really good for steelheading.

[DonT]

HI guys,

I've tried everything imaginable. Felt by itself is OK on some surfaces and is much better than nothing but it's not good at all if there is any algae or the rocks are very smooth. The Simms hardbite cleats and sheet metal screws work great when new but their edges wear out quickly and they lose efficiency much faster than I would like. I've used aluminum bars quite a bit and they are great on a lot of surfaces but they are not good (actually dangerous) on smooth bedrock. The edges of the bars also wear over time and they get rounded and lose some of their original bite. I've settled on Korkers with the interchangeable soles and alternate between felt with carbide studs and the actual metal spiked soles sold by Korkers. The steelhead guides I fish with all wear the spikes. They are the absolute best for all slick wading situations and do not wear out (or wear out really slowly). However there is the obvious downside that you need to be really careful with them in boats and they are not great for a lot of walking outside the river. In the summer while trout fishing and walking a lot I still will wear my lightweight SImms with the aluminum bars but this is almost always in places I know well and can wade with this setup safely. Hope this helps.