840 Grangers and #50 Leonards

[billems]

These two for me represent the best casting rods in the 8 foot delineation (I've never cast the Dickerson 8-footer, however; nor the Payne equivalent. And I'll never be able to afford either), though the Jenkins 8-footer is classic to me. But what say ye? You think the tapers are similar in those two? You can just feel the cast on those rods--a great combination of effortlessness, sling, and power.

[archer829]

I'm relatively new to the bamboo game, so take this with a grain of salt, but I've cast the following: 7633, 8040, 8642x4, 9050 and SB 346x2, SB 290, SB 13, and SB 24.

In my humble opinion, the 8040 outshines them all. I've got graphite fly rods that can do what all the others can do, although they're not as fun as the bamboos for some reason, but nothing modern works like my 8040. It's my single favorite rod.

Jeff

[Flykuni3]

Stirring the pot, are they actually "the same rod..."?

[corlay]

I owned a W+M 8040 and a late pre-fire model 50 (non-“tournament”)at the same time.

I liked them both, but preferred the 50. and sold the 8040.

the 8040 was just a little less of a precision caster for me, and seemed to be a ‘tweener 4/5 wt, where the 50 is just fabulous with a dt5 sylk.

[thegubster]

I have a couple Payne 200's Billy, along with a 200L (that rod's something else!!!) each different from the other. Why? I dunno but all I can say say is that it's good that you're not whiling for one cuz they'll spoil a boy!!

Trust that!

[Canewrap]

I have the taper for a Payne 201 that the stress graph looks an awful lot like the Granger 8040. Both 3-piece and both fish 4/5 wt.

[bluesjay]

Hi Guys, Here are some tapers:

Leonard 50 DF Tournament 8ft 2pc 5 wt
Leonard 50 DF Tournament, 8ft 2p 5wt.
This is the ''mystery rod'' from the 1996 Grayrock gathering.
Posted by Richard Tyree, July 7 1996.
There were 2 tips which seemed about the same so I
roughly averaged the 3x2 measurements.
Varnish thickness of 0.006 subtracted. The original posting
has guild spacing also.

Parameter Value
Geometry: Hex
Construction: Solid
Rod Length: 8 ft 0 in (=96 in )
Action Length: 7 ft 2 in (=86 in )
Line type: Standard
Line Weight: 5 DT
Line Fished: 40 ft
Pieces: 2
Tip Factor: 1.754 oz (4.0 x 0.438 oz)
Tiptop: 3.5/64ths
Ferrule Type: Standard
Ferrule 1: -Fer size 13/64 @ 48.00 in
-Rod is 12.864/64 in (0.201 in) at 48.00 in from tip
-Outside diameter (around apexes): 14.854/64 (0.232 in)
-Wt 0.271 oz
Design Notes: Leonard 50 DF Tournament, 8ft 2p 5wt. This is the ''mystery rod'' from the 1996 Grayrock gathering. Posted by Richard Tyree, July 7 1996. There were 2 tips which seemed about the same so I roughly averaged the 3x2 measurements. Varnish thickness of 0.006 subtracted. The original posting has guild spacing also.
Station
(in) Dimension
(in) Stress
0 0.044 -
5 0.074 202469
10 0.094 193905
15 0.112 175216
20 0.125 173678
25 0.138 168135
30 0.154 152207
35 0.172 134357
40 0.187 126620
45 0.195 133705
50 0.205 139078
55 0.219 138078
60 0.236 131484
65 0.257 119947
70 0.277 111910
75 0.287 116772
80 0.307 110098
85 0.341 92305
86 0.345 91605


Granger 8ft 3pc 4wt
Requires stepdown ferrules. Swelled butt not shown. Varnish of 0.003 subtracted.

Parameter Value
Geometry: Hex
Construction: Solid
Rod Length: 8 ft 0 in (=96 in )
Action Length: 7 ft 2 in (=86 in )
Line type: Standard
Line Weight: 4 DT
Line Fished: 40 ft
Pieces: 3
Tip Factor: 1.550 oz (4.0 x 0.387 oz)
Tiptop: 5.0/64ths
Ferrule Type: Standard
Ferrule 1: -Fer size 9/64 @ 32.00 in
-Rod is 9.498/64 in (0.148 in) at 32.00 in from tip
-Outside diameter (around apexes): 10.967/64 (0.171 in)
-Wt 0.135 oz
Ferrule 2: -Fer size 15/64 @ 64.00 in
-Rod is 14.707/64 in (0.230 in) at 64.00 in from tip
-Outside diameter (around apexes): 16.982/64 (0.265 in)
-Wt 0.358 oz
Design Notes: Requires stepdown ferrules. Swelled butt not shown. Varnish of 0.003 subtracted.
Station
(in) Dimension
(in) Stress
0 0.065 -
5 0.082 132794
10 0.099 149333
15 0.114 150559
20 0.130 140822
25 0.142 141705
30 0.146 165051
35 0.170 132774
40 0.181 136865
45 0.197 129736
50 0.209 129668
55 0.217 136758
60 0.224 146572
65 0.231 158454
70 0.250 147536
75 0.260 153632
80 0.276 148263
85 0.291 145824
86 0.294 145598


Compare.....

Jay Edwards

[Flykuni3]

Um, thats a lot of numbers.

[Flykuni3]

[Flyman615]

I've been collecting and fishing Grangers for quite awhile now...almost 50 years. As I've opined before, I believe the 8040 to be the very best of Grangers trout tapers both before and after WWII.

And yes, there are slight differences between early and late rods, but nothing that can't be accommodated easily by any experienced fly caster.

So if the Leonard 50DF and Granger 8040 are as similar as they are thought to be, well that's no real surprise, is it?

Just my 2 cents...

Scott Z.

[joehudock]

Um, thats a lot of numbers.

Its also somewhat confusing to me. I have what I think is Leonard 50Df. At least that's what the seller told me since its 8 ft long and three piece and stamped Tournament on the butt cap. No hang tag on the bag. The seller also said if it was a two piece rod 8 ft long it would be a Leonard 40. So are two piece 8 foot Leonards 40s and three piece Leonards 50s or could either be in two piece or three piece configuration/

[wineslob]

In my humble opinion, the 8040 outshines them all. I've got graphite fly rods that can do what all the others can do, although they're not as fun as the bamboos for some reason,

I had/have several graphite rods. I think the reason I prefer boo to the other is it makes you slow down. A video about fishing back country steams in Idaho made this starkly apparent. The guy filming himself looked frenetic while casting an "expensive" graphite rod. Made me think how I had slowed down and enjoyed fishing much more.

[Short Tip]

Its also somewhat confusing to me. I have what I think is Leonard 50Df. At least that's what the seller told me since its 8 ft long and three piece and stamped Tournament on the butt cap. No hang tag on the bag. The seller also said if it was a two piece rod 8 ft long it would be a Leonard 40. So are two piece 8 foot Leonards 40s and three piece Leonards 50s or could either be in two piece or three piece configuration/

There were a few 3pc. 8ft Leonards in addition to the Model 50, but with the Tournament stamping, it's most likely to be a 50DF.

Just to make things as confusing as possible, in the pre-fire era, there was a Model 40 (and a Model 39) which were 3 piece 8 foot rods. They are somewhat rare. They bear no resemblance to the later 2pc. Model 40.

In the case of 2 pc. rods, the 2 pc. 8 foot Model 40 was introduced in the post-fire era, around 1970 I believe. Before that, the 2 pc. 8 foot trout rod was the Model 66.

Good times!

[archer829]

I had/have several graphite rods. I think the reason I prefer boo to the other is it makes you slow down. A video about fishing back country steams in Idaho made this starkly apparent. The guy filming himself looked frenetic while casting an "expensive" graphite rod. Made me think how I had slowed down and enjoyed fishing much more.

This makes a lot of sense! Jeff

[joehudock]

I owned a W+M 8040 and a late pre-fire model 50 (non-“tournament”)at the same time.

I liked them both, but preferred the 50. and sold the 8040.

the 8040 was just a little less of a precision caster for me, and seemed to be a ‘tweener 4/5 wt, where the 50 is just fabulous with a dt5 sylk.

I've got both so took them out to the back yard for some comparative analysis. The Leonard 50 for me is more of a full flexing rod while the 8040 is more of a tip action. The 8040 to me is a solid 5wt rod while the 50 is more of 4/5 type. Although my W&M 8040 is all original right down to the bag and tube the Leonard has had a lot of work and looks like its been re-wrapped more times than a re-gifted chia pet. Bottom line, I like both. The Leonard goes to the Letort with me while the 8040 is my choice for the Yellow Breeches.

[bluesjay]

Hi Guys, I too own one of each; a 50 DF I got from Phil Snyder and an 8040 that was given to me. Both have had work done. I agree with Joe that mine are a slower 50 and a tippier 8040. I posted all the numbers without comparing them 'cause the tapers can change for a variety of reasons. Maybe I'll compare numbers and rods.

Jay Edwards

[eastprong]

Based on lots of posts over time on this Board, is it true that the Leonard tapers varied significantly over time? If so, isn't this comparison dependent on the Leonard era?

[perfesser]

.

[Booman2]

Perfesser: your comments on M-50's are similar to what I have experiences except that there are M-50's and M-50DF's from the same era that cast somewhat differently, IMO. As an aside, I once owned 3 consecutive late model M-40's (1999, etc.) and they were all slightly different.