Balancing a Hardy 'A.H.E. Wood' with the right reel

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The Doc
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Balancing a Hardy 'A.H.E. Wood' with the right reel

#1

Post by The Doc »

Good morning,

I'm new to this forum and a bit overwhelmed by the wealth of knowledge I'm confronted with. Hence, I hope my question does not come across as stupid! (And I hope that my kitchen English is up to the standard of the exquisite readership of this forum!)

As much as it grieves me to admit: I'm a Hardy aficionado. So much so, that I am devoted to exclusively buy, own and fish Hardy bamboo rods and reels. Furthermore, I fish exclusively with silk lines. (Sorry!) :pipe

As for my question: I've just acquired a 1952 Hardy 'The A.H.E. Wood' Palakona 12' #8 double-handed salmon bamboo rod (NOT the steel centred one, mind you), and am a bit at a loss as to which (Hardy) reel I should use with it in order to get the balance right. The weight of the rod is 428gr. (sorry about the metric information).

Can anyone of you help me with regard to this problem of mine?

Gershom (The Doc)
Last edited by The Doc on 11/21/20 02:01, edited 2 times in total.

60InchDV8
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Re: Balancing a Hardy 'A.H.E. Wood' with the right reel

#2

Post by 60InchDV8 »

Hey,
You don’t have to apologize for your “affliction” to fishing vintage tackle on this site, especially being addicted to Hardy tackle and silk lines.
I am also rather passionate concerning Hardy tackle and the fishing tactics of the 19th and 20th century which were highly effective. A.E. Woods transformed salmon fishing with his greased line technique and using “wee” sparsely dressed low water style patterns for salmon fishing. I have several of his Hardy Greased Line rods and fish them with a 3 3/4 or 4 inch Salmon Perfects with a silk line. Wood cast over head, often using one hand, while using these rods he designed for Hardy. I enjoy GL fishing with his tackle and style and seeing a salmon boil on the surface after on of his Blue Charms. This is a very effective technique on the lower Restigouche River with its shallow gin clear wide runs in late June and July, like Home Pool on the RRL water pictured here, or Matapedia Run on the RSC water above the rail bridge.
Regards from the Restigouche....Jim
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Re: Balancing a Hardy 'A.H.E. Wood' with the right reel

#3

Post by The Doc »

Hi Jim,

Thanks ever so much for responding to my 'call'. Your insight and experience is much appreciated.
Am I right in concluding that you're using the 3 3/4 for your 12' #8 rods of roughly 400gr.? Don't you have the impression, that this reel size lets the rod be a bit tip-heavy?

With kind regards,

Gershom (The Doc)

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Marterius
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Re: Balancing a Hardy 'A.H.E. Wood' with the right reel

#4

Post by Marterius »

Hi Gershom,
Regards from Sweden! :)

I have a Perfect 3 3/4 on a Sharpe's Spliced 12' #8, and it balances nicely in my opinion. I don't think we should be too theoretical about rod and line weight. If a reel is pleasurable enough to fish, you will find balance and it might be better with a tip heavy rod than too heavy a total setup. And I don't think it is easy to find a heavier suitable reel than the Perfect. Remember that Charles Ritz's opinion was that all rods performed at the best without any reel at all when casting. You will always find a suitible way of holding the rod between casts.

Best,
Martin

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Re: Balancing a Hardy 'A.H.E. Wood' with the right reel

#5

Post by 60InchDV8 »

Yes....but all cane rods, and modern graphite rods are going to feel tip heavy once they are lined and you’re fishing with them. The vital aspect of a balanced outfit to me comes down to having the right taper and weight of line to optimize your rods casting performance. I do use a 4 inch Salmon Perfect with this rod but not because it’s added weight balances the rod but because it holds more backing to handle a 30 lb Springer in the high water and fast currents of early June on the Restigouche. Once the water levels drop and the currents subside, the 3 3/4 inch Perfect gets the nod as it’s a lighter option.
As an example, I enjoy Far and Fine Off fishing with a Scott MacKenzie 18 foot graphite spey rod while wading in waist deep water and casting 50 to 60 yards at narrow angles from 35 to 18 degrees to undisturbed salmon downstream. These reduced angles provide for a slower swing and presents the salmon or steelie with a different profile of the fly. I have used a 4 1/2 inch vintage 1905 check Brass Faced Salmon Perfect with this rod but this added weight doesn’t provide any advantage. My favourite reel with this 18 ft. rod is a Salmon Marquis 3 Silent Check reel. This reel when loaded with 300 yards of 30 lb backing and a Carron Spey line with a 105 foot head is considerably lighter than the 4 1/2 inch Perfect. The rod is noticeably tip heavy, but this seems to add to the casting momentum necessary to launch a longer head.
A cane rod, especially the Wood GL with the steel core, is going to make for a heavier outfit. Rather than trying to “balance” it as we would with 6 ft midge rod and a 2 1/2 inch reel, I’d recommend trying to lighten it up. I know “balance” is subjective and that some anglers feel differently and actually add weight to their reel seats to obtain a balance point on the rods handle to their liking. However, unlike a single hand trout rod, the elongated spey rod handles are designed change your upper hand position to accommodate different casting strokes. A fixed balance point offers minimal comfort and advantage. A few extra ounces of weight for your outfit though can be felt during a long afternoon session of casting into the wind.The enclosed photo is a 15 ft Sharpes spliced cane spey rod paired with a 4 1/2 inch wide body reel. Rather than using the heavier 4 1/2 inch BF Perfect, I chose the lighter 1914 era 4 1/2 inch Silex reel which is a couple of ounces lighter. This outfit weighs in excess of 3 pounds but the parabolic action of the spliced cane, flexing through the handle, feels like the rod is casting itself, regardless of feeling initially tip heavy.
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Re: Balancing a Hardy 'A.H.E. Wood' with the right reel

#6

Post by Dwight »

Hello Gershom,

I would second Martin’s comments above. I comfortably fish Sharpes spliced 13’ and 14’ cane two handers with 3 3/4“ and 4” Perfect style Dingleys, respectively. I don’t strive to balance those rods as I would a single handed rod. After all, doesn’t our lower hand provide the necessary “balance” during each phase of the casting stroke (especially spey) with a two-hander? As for the swing, I place the mushroom butt against my belly for large mends if I feel the need. I just finished a fall steelhead trip where I fished hard for five straight days with those outfits and loved it. Once, years ago, I tried balancing those rods at the front of the grip with a brass reel. The whole outfit felt ridiculously heavy and the cast felt dead. All of the beautiful, lively action of the Sharpes cane was gone for me.

Dwight

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Re: Balancing a Hardy 'A.H.E. Wood' with the right reel

#7

Post by The Doc »

Dear fellow bamboo lovers,

Thanks for your extensive and thorough answers. That's more than I had hoped for.
As I am new to double-handed rods, your advice is being gladly accepted.

Again, thanks for taking the time to answer my post.

Gershom (The Doc)

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Re: Balancing a Hardy 'A.H.E. Wood' with the right reel

#8

Post by Lanny »

I have been reading some excerpts from Hardy's old catalogues lately. The pages I have seen include reel recomendations for all the Hardy rods. For example, a 3" St. George or Bougle is recommended for a 9' Fairy. If you don't mind taking the manufacturer's advice you can start there.

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Re: Balancing a Hardy 'A.H.E. Wood' with the right reel

#9

Post by The Doc »

Hi Lanny,

Oh wow! That's interesting. Do you know, whether these kind of lists do exist online? If so, do you, by any chance, have a link for me?
Your insight is much appreciated.

Greetings,

Gershom

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Re: Balancing a Hardy 'A.H.E. Wood' with the right reel

#10

Post by Lanny »

I have not come across any list, sorry. Only select pages from old catalogues.

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Re: Balancing a Hardy 'A.H.E. Wood' with the right reel

#11

Post by The Doc »

Ah, ok. Thanks anyway.

Lanny
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Re: Balancing a Hardy 'A.H.E. Wood' with the right reel

#12

Post by Lanny »

No problem. Another option, if you know the year your rod was made, would be to buy that year's catalogue, if you can find it. A word of caution, looking at some of the pages I see online, some rods have reel recommendations and some don't.

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Re: Balancing a Hardy 'A.H.E. Wood' with the right reel

#13

Post by The Doc »

Yup. I'm already at it. Thanks.

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Re: Balancing a Hardy 'A.H.E. Wood' with the right reel

#14

Post by Lockfast »

1938 Hardy's Angler's Guide supplement had all of Hardy's rods listed with reel and line recommendations.
The recommended reel for No. 2 A.H.E. Wood was 3 3/4" Perfect.

I've used 4" Perfect and even a St. John with mine (the latter with silk lines and when backing capacity was not critical), and 4" Perfect or 4" Young's wide spool Pridex with No. 3.

I don't think that the balance is very important when handling a shortish double hander. And if you intend to cast the rod single-handed (as Arthur Wood did), it may be really challenging to find a reel heavy enough to balance the rod.

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Re: Balancing a Hardy 'A.H.E. Wood' with the right reel

#15

Post by The Doc »

Hey Lockfast,

Thanks for your advice.
I'm just about heading for the water with a Hardy Perfect Taupo 3 7/8 wide spool (a compromise). I'm looking forward to testing the advice of you all.

'Tight lines' to you all on this weekend,

Gershom

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Re: Balancing a Hardy 'A.H.E. Wood' with the right reel

#16

Post by The Doc »

Hi again,

The last couple of weeks I've been testing my new (old) Hardy 'Wood' and tried to apply all your suggestions. I have to admit that I, eventually, stayed faithful to my Hardy Perfect 3 7/8 and combined it with a newly ordered Phoenix silk line (#8). This combination proved excellent.

Thanks again for all your suggestions.

Tight line,

Gershom (The Doc)

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Re: Balancing a Hardy 'A.H.E. Wood' with the right reel

#17

Post by 60InchDV8 »

Hi,
There is a misconception that Arthur Wood was spey casting to achieve . his greased line presentation with his DT silk line. He was actually casting overhead with one or two hands with double handed rods which he later designed for Hardy. These rods were not designed for spey casting with their metal ferrules and can be de laminated or broken above the first ferrule due to the lateral stress of the spey cast. This is a primarily a problem with modern spey lines because of their larger diameter and drag on the water during the spey cast. A silk DT or TT offers less drag and resistance but I would recommend a switch cast after fishing out the dangle at the end of your swing. This will place the fly, leader, and line on the surface and this is especially important if you are fishing the silk line as a full sinking intermediate. With the line on the surface you can make an easy consistent placement for your D loop and cast with minimal stress on this rare rod.
Regards from the Restigouche....Jim

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Re: Balancing a Hardy 'A.H.E. Wood' with the right reel

#18

Post by The Doc »

Howdy Jim,

Thanks for your comment.
You're partly right. The 'Wood' was originally not designed for spey casting. The glue applied before the 50ies also did not permit for this. However, from the 50ies models onwards, this changed, and the 'Wood' was transformed into a regular spey casting rod.

Greetings from the Netherlands,

Gershom (The Doc)

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Re: Balancing a Hardy 'A.H.E. Wood' with the right reel

#19

Post by 60InchDV8 »

Well...In 1950 the majority of lines available for fly fishing, and in particular spey casting were silk. My Sharpes spliced switch and spey rods, made in the 1960’s and 70’s, were designated for silk lines. As I previously mentioned, anglers using non flexing metal ferruled double hand cane rods, designated as spey rods or not (as most were designed for overhead casting) must be cautious. Spey casting with these rods, using mid belly or longer modern spey lines, can delaminate or break them, usually in the midsection above the first ferrule. The added water and wind resistance of the larger diameter modern floating or sinking lines is problematic, as a silk DT or TT line has a smaller diameter than these modern spey lines. Casting silk lines, greased for a floating or oil treated for a sinking presentation, do not produce the same amount of stress on a cane rod while spey casting.

As with modern cane rods, the makers advise anglers to adhere to strict grain weight limitations and use Scandi casting with short head shooting lines to avoid damaging their ferruled or spliced rods.
Regards from the Restigouche.....Jim
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Re: Balancing a Hardy 'A.H.E. Wood' with the right reel

#20

Post by Dr. Heller »

The A.H.E. Wood is a double handed rod, not a Spey rod. The taper is not made or used for Speycasting. The fine tip and strong butt calls for overhead casting, as Wood did. A Spey rod has a strong tip and a good action in the butt. Look At DH tapers by Wolfram Schott.

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