Casting question

[Minnesota]

Why can I make an efficient cast: tight loops, straight line on forward cast, and put the line tip on a target, if I don’t use a leader, but end up with a tangled mess if I use a tapered 9’ 4X Rio leader. I understand that without seeing a video of my casting this may be an impossible question. If it is, just tell me so. However. If you can help I would appreciate it. I am casting in the street in front of my house, not on water or even grass.

[mer]

Good question.
Adding a leader you need to account for how the leader dissipates the energy. No leader, energy runs out at the tip of the line.
Do you have a "fly" (or bunch of yarn representing a fly) on the leader? If so, maybe it's too "big". Maybe take a size 14 fly, clip off the bend and tie that to the leader.

[ibookje]

Yes make a video of you casting and we can analyse your casting

[bluesjay]

Hi Guys, To start, straighten the leader, if you haven't.

Jay Edwards

[kilgore]

One day I was fishing a small stream and looking with pride at my perfectly laid out line. After a few casts, I realized that I had wound the leader on a branch on back cast and it had pulled it off. You mention the weight of your leader but how about the line weight of your rod? Each leader weight only takes a small range of fly sizes.

[16pmd]

Don't know the reason for your casting issue, but you should always practice with a leader and a small piece of yarn.
•Without leader and yarn "fly", the line will turn over fast and hard, sometimes causing a "crack the whip" turnover that can damage the line
•Practicing without those will give you a false sense of the timing of a good cast and will likely cause you to rush both forward and backcasts

[BambooNut]

The road will ruin your line. Don't cast on the road.

After reading your posts. I suggest you take some casting lessons from a qualified instructor.

[ted patlen]

There is a loss of power somewhere in your casting.

One common fault is the backcast is not played out completely. There are a few remedies but attend to your backcast. Some people respond to the suggestion , "remember that the back cast and forward cast should be the same."

Tangled leaders are a sign of "jolting" the rod by over powering the cast. Again, it is a loss of power. Try smoothing out the casting stroke ands let the rod work.

It really is very difficult to assess your casting without video, but these are relatively common factors that I've seen on many flyrodders.

[DaveNJ]

There is a loss of power somewhere in your casting.

One common fault is the backcast is not played out completely. There are a few remedies but attend to your backcast. Some people respond to the suggestion , "remember that the back cast and forward cast should be the same."

Tangled leaders are a sign of "jolting" the rod by over powering the cast. Again, it is a loss of power. Try smoothing out the casting stroke ands let the rod work.

It really is very difficult to assess your casting without video, but these are relatively common factors that I've seen on many flyrodders.

Agree with this 100%

Also keep in mind that you should cast your final cast. Some people try to hammer the last cast to generate more "oomph" but wind up collapsing the tip/ruining the momentum.

[cappy]

I agree with Dave and Ted. Try slowing things down, especially if your rod is on the slow/limp side of the spectrum.

[BambooNut]

Hard to believe nobody else is recommending he take some casting lessons.

[DaveNJ]

Hard to believe nobody else is recommending he take some casting lessons.

He asked for tips... so we offered some.

[BambooNut]

Hard to believe nobody else is recommending he take some casting lessons.

He asked for tips... so we offered some.

Not really. Read his post again. He asked for help. The best help he can get are lessons.

[Minnesota]

Believe me, if I could get lessons, I would. I live in a small town, pop. 7800. There are no lessons to be had within an two hour drive. I don’t, for health reasons, drive.

[carlz]

If you can have someone take a cell phone video of a couple of casts (with the leader and yarn on the line) it would probably help a lot of people analyze what's going on. Their conflicting advice will confuse you, but hopefully one of the suggestions will click.

For me, if I don't have a leader on, my fly line bounces all over the place, so I would just work on practicing with a leader on for a bit.

[Caneghost]

If you cannot get a lesson then try searching Youtube for casting videos. There is likely a lot of crap on there, but if you find any of Joan Wulff's or Joe Humphreys' videos that should help you a lot. Others might include Mel Kreiger and Lefty Kreh.

It is likely that you are not allowing the rod to load (bend from the weight and momentum of the line on the backcast) properly due to bad timing. You need to learn to feel the rod bending to tell you when to begin your forward cast. A decent video makes it much easier for a beginner to understand since you can see it. A proper fly cast is a sequence of separate movements that are combined smoothly: lift the rod tip and some of the line from the water, accelerate the rod quickly from 1 o'clock to 11 oclock and stop, allow the line to unroll in the air behind you until you feel the rod bending just before it unrolls all the way, drift your hand from 11 o'clock to 12 then power the cast with a quick wrist motion by squeezing the rod grip and stop, when the line unrolls in front of you gently lower the rod tip toward the water.

[grayghost]

PM sent

[Minnesota]

I took some videos, but can’t get them to upload using either FLiKR or the forum uploaded. I have up loaded videos from FLIKR before.

[DaveNJ]

Believe me, if I could get lessons, I would. I live in a small town, pop. 7800. There are no lessons to be had within an two hour drive. I don’t, for health reasons, drive.

Right, and you CAN teach yourself. And even after you teach yourself you can get a touch up lesson down the line.

Here is a link for an EXCELLENT book by Ed Jaworowski: https://www.amazon.com/Cast-Theories-Ap ... 0811719170

[Minnesota]

Well, I took some of the advice. My casting improved. I just got in from a casting session. I made the yarn wad much smaller, slowed down the forward cast after being sure I stopped the back going up at about one o’clock. Also, the forward d cast was a bit fast. I seem to have it now. Thanks for all the advice.
Ps. Lefty videos as well as others helped and Carl you can teach yourself.