Bamboo presentation with heavier line?

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nuchamps5
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Bamboo presentation with heavier line?

#1

Post by nuchamps5 »

Wondering what you all think about whether bamboo presents a heavier line more delicately than graphite or glass? My thinking is yes (of course dependent on casting style, etc.) but I can't really figure out why I think that.

For a little context, I just got my first bamboo rod (an Orvis Battenkill 7 1/2' 3 7/8 oz) and while the consensus seems to be that it does well underlined (down to a DT5 is the usual recommendation), as I'm casting in the front yard, I've found that at normal fishing distances (20-35 ft) I really like it with a true-to-weight WF6. I don't mind it with a DT5, but I think the action of the rod really comes out with the 6 wt.

My issues is that while I really like the rod, I don't usually fish a 6 wt on our small streams here in Wisconsin. I can't get out to fish until the season opens in January, so I'm stuck speculating and figured y'all might have some thoughts. Will I notice a presentation difference throwing a 6 wt line on a bamboo rod compared to a graphite rod?

Also possible I'm overthinking this and should just go fish in a few weeks and enjoy my new rod. :)

NewUtahCaneAngler
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Re: Bamboo presentation with heavier line?

#2

Post by NewUtahCaneAngler »

This is Orvis' Basic Trout Rod. Go Fish it...when legal. It is a nice taper and, IMHO, a very capable all around rod. A great rod to choose if you can have just one.

Merry Christmas,
Joe

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Short Tip
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Re: Bamboo presentation with heavier line?

#3

Post by Short Tip »

It's been my belief that most bamboo rods present more delicately, probably due to lower line speeds and softer tips. Note that really light lines did not take off in popularity until fast stiff graphite rods created a "need" for them. When your rod was made, a 6 weight was considered the "standard" for trout and panfish.

nuchamps5
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Re: Bamboo presentation with heavier line?

#4

Post by nuchamps5 »

Short Tip wrote:
12/23/20 17:36
It's been my belief that most bamboo rods present more delicately, probably due to lower line speeds and softer tips. Note that really light lines did not take off in popularity until fast stiff graphite rods created a "need" for them. When your rod was made, a 6 weight was considered the "standard" for trout and panfish.
Ah, there we go, line speed! I knew there was some reason I felt like the rod was more delicate than my graphite rods, even my softer action Sage SPs. Thanks!

Frankly, I kind of wonder if a 6 wt bamboo is a really nice option, giving me the grain weight to push bigger hoppers, etc., without having to drive the line quickly to turn over the fly.

nuchamps5
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Re: Bamboo presentation with heavier line?

#5

Post by nuchamps5 »

NewUtahCaneAngler wrote:
12/23/20 17:13
This is Orvis' Basic Trout Rod. Go Fish it...when legal. It is a nice taper and, IMHO, a very capable all around rod. A great rod to choose if you can have just one.

Merry Christmas,
Joe
I'm super excited to get it out on the water! I'm a little concerned about fishing it in the cold. From what I've read, there's no reason to think bamboo will get any more brittle in the cold, but I want to avoid ice'd up guides so I don't break the tip, so I might wait for a warm-ish winter day to take it out the first time.

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Re: Bamboo presentation with heavier line?

#6

Post by 60InchDV8 »

May I suggest matching your rod with a silk DT line? You will achieve the delicate presentations you desire and enjoy casting the thin diamete, density, and sensitivity of these lines.

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Short Tip
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Re: Bamboo presentation with heavier line?

#7

Post by Short Tip »

nuchamps5 wrote:
12/23/20 17:41

Ah, there we go, line speed! I knew there was some reason I felt like the rod was more delicate than my graphite rods, even my softer action Sage SPs. Thanks!

Frankly, I kind of wonder if a 6 wt bamboo is a really nice option, giving me the grain weight to push bigger hoppers, etc., without having to drive the line quickly to turn over the fly.
Yes exactly, you can also stay out in the wind when the 3 weight guys have to go back to the car for a different rod. If you look at the tip diameter of a plastic 6 wt., vs. a plastic 3 wt., it's not a dramatic difference. If one will spook a fish, so will the other. And by the time their shadow is cast on the bottom of a clear pool, both look like an anchor rope. Not to mention, it's easier to turn over a long leader with the heavier line.

The silk can be a real nice option too, if you are willing to put in a little extra care and feeding. It'll work well on those driftless streams with their relatively low gradient.

NewUtahCaneAngler
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Re: Bamboo presentation with heavier line?

#8

Post by NewUtahCaneAngler »

I also enjoy using silk - in warmer weather, but use my impregnated rods in any type of weather with plastic lines.

nuchamps5
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Re: Bamboo presentation with heavier line?

#9

Post by nuchamps5 »

60InchDV8 wrote:
12/23/20 17:53
May I suggest matching your rod with a silk DT line? You will achieve the delicate presentations you desire and enjoy casting the thin diamete, density, and sensitivity of these lines.
I'm intrigued by silk, but I think I might try to get a season or so in with plastic first to get the hang of bamboo, before I jump into the care and cost of a silk line. Maybe it's not that much more work, but I feel like I should learn a bit more, especially before I put down a couple hundred dollars on a nice silk line.

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wctc1
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Re: Bamboo presentation with heavier line?

#10

Post by wctc1 »

I have tried short and braided leaders for close in work, with the rod held high, trying to drop, providing sun is right.

But first, it is most important to take a line, cast to a spot without a leader and nearly touch a leaf, or barely disturb the water, or whatever --- that's just me. Practice down at the boat dock helps, even if the sign says "no fishing." As I told one officer, "No hook, no fishing." Then I got him to looking at my cane rod.

Happy Holidays, Joe here

For some odd reason, I was amazed by your 20 - 35 ft. cast. While I have argued this for years, decades, in our western "big" waters, that's about the cast -- at least I -- use, and almost anyone else admits, especially the "dry" guys, when "dry."

In my experience, when fishing big water, only the tail end of a long cast will let me set a hook. Truly, steelhead are fish of a thousand casts what with a 10-15 ft. opportunity. Plus, I'm a lousy fisher.

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Re: Bamboo presentation with heavier line?

#11

Post by JFL »

It is like Short Tips said, the higher line speed the more agressive turnover. A short belly line will also splash more into the surface than a double taper for instance. One of the main reasons I rarely use the double haul is to slow down line speed. You can easily cast the same length with some practise, but the presentation will be far better. Slow down, present better, catch fish.

In my humble opinon.
Jan Fredrik
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nuchamps5
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Re: Bamboo presentation with heavier line?

#12

Post by nuchamps5 »

JFL wrote:
12/24/20 02:59
It is like Short Tips said, the higher line speed the more agressive turnover. A short belly line will also splash more into the surface than a double taper for instance. One of the main reasons I rarely use the double haul is to slow down line speed. You can easily cast the same length with some practise, but the presentation will be far better. Slow down, present better, catch fish.

In my humble opinon.
Thanks! I, too, rarely use the double haul, particularly when trout fishing, and have never felt hampered by that decision. I don't find the short belly lines are worse than double tapers for me, but that's probably because on our spring creeks, I'm rarely casting much beyond the head. I'd imagine that'd be different on bigger waters.

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Re: Bamboo presentation with heavier line?

#13

Post by Caneghost »

One thing that helps presentation is using a long leader, but on small streams that option tends to not be applicable. The sensitive tips of bamboo and the reduced line speed will do a lot for presentation as discussed above. When I used to fish a lot of small streams I tied the George Harvey formula leaders up to about ten feet. On the smallest brookie waters I used a 6' knotless tapered 4X leader with 2.5' of 5X or 6X tippet. That was short enough for my 5'5" one piece bamboo brookie rod in very tight quarters, and presented small dries quite delicately in low water. I expect you can Google George Harvey leaders and find the formulas.

Long fine line tapers are helpful too: Wulff Triangle Taper, Airflo Delta taper,etc.

One last note on bamboo and presentation. In late October I fished a local river at extremely low water. Had not seen a bug or a rise for a week or more so I was swinging bead head soft hackles with my off-season rod, an 8' 6/7 Kiley bamboo, casting an Airflow WF7F line. Saw a couple of sips around some boulders in a glassy tailout and a few tiny olives drifting down. I added 4' of 5X to build my leader out to 13' and knotted a size 20 olive comparadun. The fish bulged about 40 to 50 feet out so I made a soft cast down and across and laid the fly upstream. That brown was 22 inches. I was easily able to present the little dry with a heavy bamboo trout rod more gently than with a typical fast action four weight graphite, and that rod protected the tippet. As Ed Engle wrote in Splitting Cane, bamboo rods were made to cast a line while graphite rods are made to shoot line. Enjoy your new Orvis!
...a wink of gold like the glint of sunlight on polished cane...

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nuchamps5
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Re: Bamboo presentation with heavier line?

#14

Post by nuchamps5 »

Caneghost wrote:
12/24/20 10:26
One thing that helps presentation is using a long leader, but on small streams that option tends to not be applicable. The sensitive tips of bamboo and the reduced line speed will do a lot for presentation as discussed above. When I used to fish a lot of small streams I tied the George Harvey formula leaders up to about ten feet. On the smallest brookie waters I used a 6' knotless tapered 4X leader with 2.5' of 5X or 6X tippet. That was short enough for my 5'5" one piece bamboo brookie rod in very tight quarters, and presented small dries quite delicately in low water. I expect you can Google George Harvey leaders and find the formulas.

Long fine line tapers are helpful too: Wulff Triangle Taper, Airflo Delta taper,etc.

One last note on bamboo and presentation. In late October I fished a local river at extremely low water. Had not seen a bug or a rise for a week or more so I was swinging bead head soft hackles with my off-season rod, an 8' 6/7 Kiley bamboo, casting an Airflow WF7F line. Saw a couple of sips around some boulders in a glassy tailout and a few tiny olives drifting down. I added 4' of 5X to build my leader out to 13' and knotted a size 20 olive comparadun. The fish bulged about 40 to 50 feet out so I made a soft cast down and across and laid the fly upstream. That brown was 22 inches. I was easily able to present the little dry with a heavy bamboo trout rod more gently than with a typical fast action four weight graphite, and that rod protected the tippet. As Ed Engle wrote in Splitting Cane, bamboo rods were made to cast a line while graphite rods are made to shoot line. Enjoy your new Orvis!
Great advice, thanks! I think I've used George Harvey's leader formula before, and I do really like the hand-tied leaders for turning over flies. Though I don't think I'm a good enough angler to catch a 22" brown, I can absolutely do that with a 12" brown! :)

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