Dry fly verses wet fly rods
Moderators: pmcroberts, uniphasian
- kevinhaney1
- Master Guide
- Posts: 631
- Joined: 11/11/19 22:11
- Location: The mountains of Maryland
- Contact:
Dry fly verses wet fly rods
#1I'm still very much a beginner at bamboo, so please excuse my very basic questions. What I've been able to ascertain about rod actions is that dry fly rods are "fast" and stiffer and wet fly rods are "slow" and bend more throughout their length, with each requiring the concomitant change in the speed of the casting stroke. I'm sure there is much more to it than that, and please correct me if any of that isn't quite true. But my major question is how do you tell if a rod is "dry" or "wet, just wiggling it or lawn casting it? And does it make all that much difference if you use one for the opposite purpose?
Kevin Haney, Vintage Anglers
http://www.vintageanglers.com
http://www.vintageanglers.com
Re: Dry fly verses wet fly rods
#2That is a stereotype that is simply not true. Different rods have different actions, You or I may like a certain or different action for dries and another for wets but that is not universal. Personally I like faster action rods for everything, keeping in mind that a fast action bamboo (or "Boo" as some refer to it) and a fast action graphite are different. To quote a famous jurist, "I can't explain it but I know it when I see it." How these stereotypes get carved in stone is beyond me.kevinhaney1 wrote: ↑05/08/21 09:33What I've been able to ascertain about rod actions is that dry fly rods are "fast" and stiffer and wet fly rods are "slow" and bend more throughout their length, with each requiring the concomitant change in the speed of the casting stroke.
- kevinhaney1
- Master Guide
- Posts: 631
- Joined: 11/11/19 22:11
- Location: The mountains of Maryland
- Contact:
Re: Dry fly verses wet fly rods
#3Well, I guess it started with a lot of companies advertising and selling their rods as being one type of action or another.
Kevin Haney, Vintage Anglers
http://www.vintageanglers.com
http://www.vintageanglers.com
Re: Dry fly verses wet fly rods
#4If you’re comfortable with a rod you surely can fish anything with it
-
- Master Guide
- Posts: 856
- Joined: 04/10/16 19:03
- Location: Pflugerville, TX
- Contact:
Re: Dry fly verses wet fly rods
#5This is an interesting topic with some good history. Back in the time of gut leaders, very thin gut was needed to fish dry flies and keep them floating. As a result, rods of this era that were sold as dry fly rods (such as the Leonard Catskills series) had softer tips and slower actions to protect the leaders from breaking when a fish was hooked. This is according to descriptions in William Mills & Sons catalogs of the era.
Things changed with new technology. When leaders got stronger, rods that were advertised as Dry Fly rods got faster with crisper actions, heavier ferrules, and thicker tips. This was, presumably, because faster false casting allowed for keeping dry flies drier and floating longer.
Rods continued to get faster through the 1930s and my own opinion about why this happened is because technology and casting styles continued to change. Weight forward fly lines were invented and Marvin Hedge popularized a casting technique called the double haul.
Most rods made after 1930 that are advertised as Dry Fly models are faster rods. The Phillipson Dry Fly Special and PHY Dry Fly Special are the ones that come to mind.
George
Things changed with new technology. When leaders got stronger, rods that were advertised as Dry Fly rods got faster with crisper actions, heavier ferrules, and thicker tips. This was, presumably, because faster false casting allowed for keeping dry flies drier and floating longer.
Rods continued to get faster through the 1930s and my own opinion about why this happened is because technology and casting styles continued to change. Weight forward fly lines were invented and Marvin Hedge popularized a casting technique called the double haul.
Most rods made after 1930 that are advertised as Dry Fly models are faster rods. The Phillipson Dry Fly Special and PHY Dry Fly Special are the ones that come to mind.
George
Last edited by Woodlakejag on 05/08/21 17:14, edited 1 time in total.
Facebook - Bamboo Fly Rod Identification and Value
Instagram - vintagebambooflyrods
Instagram - vintagebambooflyrods
Re: Dry fly verses wet fly rods
#6Unless I"m woefully mistaken (very likely!), there haven't really been any true "wet fly only action" rods made for almost a century now.
There are rods with faster or slower action, but you have to go way back to find long, noodly rods that were not designed for false casting or all around trout fishing. Those old rods were, in fact, designed for fishing casts of three or more wets. They predated the rise of dry fly fishing as we know it. There may have been a transitional period when rod builders intentionally designed rods specifically for wet fly or dry fly fishing, but, as anglers became more all rounders (wet and dry fly fishing), most rods were designed to be able to handle both.
So, to answer your other question. yes, you can certainly fish dries with a slower action rod or wets with a faster action rod. After a decade or so in the bamboo game, I've realized I prefer casting and fishing what people tend to refer to as "slow" action, but what are really just easy going rods that do most of the casting work for you.
There are rods with faster or slower action, but you have to go way back to find long, noodly rods that were not designed for false casting or all around trout fishing. Those old rods were, in fact, designed for fishing casts of three or more wets. They predated the rise of dry fly fishing as we know it. There may have been a transitional period when rod builders intentionally designed rods specifically for wet fly or dry fly fishing, but, as anglers became more all rounders (wet and dry fly fishing), most rods were designed to be able to handle both.
So, to answer your other question. yes, you can certainly fish dries with a slower action rod or wets with a faster action rod. After a decade or so in the bamboo game, I've realized I prefer casting and fishing what people tend to refer to as "slow" action, but what are really just easy going rods that do most of the casting work for you.
Last edited by davemaine on 05/08/21 13:56, edited 1 time in total.
- kevinhaney1
- Master Guide
- Posts: 631
- Joined: 11/11/19 22:11
- Location: The mountains of Maryland
- Contact:
Re: Dry fly verses wet fly rods
#7That would be greenheart and other wood rods…There are rods with faster or slower action, but you have to go way back to find long, noodly rods that were not really designed for false casting or all around trout fishing.
Kevin Haney, Vintage Anglers
http://www.vintageanglers.com
http://www.vintageanglers.com
- bugslinger
- Bamboo Fanatic
- Posts: 1157
- Joined: 04/04/12 21:37
Re: Dry fly verses wet fly rods
#8Hi Kevin,
The way I rate my bamboo rods whether dry or wet action is stiffer action bamboo rods can cast both while softer whippy action is better for wet lines. I mainly fish lakes and tried indicator fishing with a whippy soft action bamboo rod and had a hard time casting and hook setting.....my 02
The way I rate my bamboo rods whether dry or wet action is stiffer action bamboo rods can cast both while softer whippy action is better for wet lines. I mainly fish lakes and tried indicator fishing with a whippy soft action bamboo rod and had a hard time casting and hook setting.....my 02
Re: Dry fly verses wet fly rods
#9The fascination with dry fly fishing is a fairly modern thing. As recently as 1938 when Bergman published "Trout", his number of wet fly patterns far exceeds the number of dry patterns -- although there are a wonderful lot of both. So it would seem that the quest for a rod which was particularly well suited for the dry fly is an evolutionary change.
Casts of 3 or more wet flies seemed to be fairly common in the early 20th century, and I can tell you from experience, that a good crisp "dry fly rod" is a poor choice for throwing the wide loops needed to keep the multi fly cast from becoming a birds nest. But I have two rods which would seem to be outrageously slow and soft by any modern standard but they both throw those big lazy slow loops with out any effort. It is no coincidence that both rods were made in the early part of the 20th century.
AgMD
Casts of 3 or more wet flies seemed to be fairly common in the early 20th century, and I can tell you from experience, that a good crisp "dry fly rod" is a poor choice for throwing the wide loops needed to keep the multi fly cast from becoming a birds nest. But I have two rods which would seem to be outrageously slow and soft by any modern standard but they both throw those big lazy slow loops with out any effort. It is no coincidence that both rods were made in the early part of the 20th century.
AgMD
Re: Dry fly verses wet fly rods
#10FWIW, in the 1960s JS Sharpe were selling some cane trout rods with a choice or combination of ‘wet’ and ‘dry’ tips. And the term “dry fly action” seems to have been used in the maker’s description of quite a few British rods in the later years of cane.
To me, the point is that a crisp action is more effective in both getting a fly quickly and accurately to a rising fish, and all that’s involved in setting the hook on a fish rising to a floating fly. Just my 2 cents worth.
To me, the point is that a crisp action is more effective in both getting a fly quickly and accurately to a rising fish, and all that’s involved in setting the hook on a fish rising to a floating fly. Just my 2 cents worth.
Re: Dry fly verses wet fly rods
#11I view a dry fly rod as one whose tip is quite delicate, and the taper transitions steeply to a more powerful mid, and especially butt. A rod that elicits “tight loops” when false casting, and can generate good line speed…
a wet fly rod, starts out with a much stouter tip, (picks up a submerged line better…) and the taper is a lot less steep (loads into the butt section more easily, and allows the caster to shoot line after a single back cast…). These rods create slower casting line speeds, and like to keep a much “looser” loop when casting.
a wet fly rod, starts out with a much stouter tip, (picks up a submerged line better…) and the taper is a lot less steep (loads into the butt section more easily, and allows the caster to shoot line after a single back cast…). These rods create slower casting line speeds, and like to keep a much “looser” loop when casting.
Re: Dry fly verses wet fly rods
#12Bjarne Fries told me that his favorite rod to fish for trout was his Pendulars which are parabolic rods. So just fish with what you like.
-
- Guide
- Posts: 223
- Joined: 03/22/14 07:39
Re: Dry fly verses wet fly rods
#13By the same token, you would also need a rod for dry fly and small dropper under.
Far more important is the cast, whether you keep the loop tight or slow. Slow and open to hand a multiple fly rig, maybe even two dry flies - an size 12 usual in front of a size 20 trico. Maybe you need the speed to get it across, even for a brief splash down or the tight to land that ant under the tree. This is no about the rod, but the cast suiting the need.
I tend to medium / medium-slow, except on the flats where I like a fast recovery graphite that does not need to be overline. '
Far more important is the cast, whether you keep the loop tight or slow. Slow and open to hand a multiple fly rig, maybe even two dry flies - an size 12 usual in front of a size 20 trico. Maybe you need the speed to get it across, even for a brief splash down or the tight to land that ant under the tree. This is no about the rod, but the cast suiting the need.
I tend to medium / medium-slow, except on the flats where I like a fast recovery graphite that does not need to be overline. '
Re: Dry fly verses wet fly rods
#14I think this is just a little bit off the mark. The rods sold specifically as "dry fly" rods were always quicker in action. The reason was false casting, a technique which came into vogue once the need for drying the fly was established. The best "dry fly" actioned rods almost always have fine tips and progressive actions. Slow rods aren't great for false casting, and they don't shoot line real well either.Woodlakejag wrote: ↑05/08/21 11:45This is an interesting topic with some good history. Back in the time of gut leaders, very thin gut was needed to fish dry flies and keep them floating. As a result, rods of this era that were sold as dry fly rods (such as the Leonard Catskills series) had softer tips and slower actions to protect the leaders from breaking when a fish was hooked. This is according to descriptions in William Mills & Sons catalogs of the era.
Things changed with new technology. When leaders got stronger, rods that were advertised as Dry Fly rods got faster with crisper actions, heavier ferrules, and thicker tips. This was, presumably, because faster false casting allowed for keeping dry flies drier and floating longer.
Rods continued to get faster through the 1930s and my own opinion about why this happened is because technology and casting styles continued to change. Weight forward fly lines were invented and Marvin Hedge popularized a casting technique called the double haul.
Most rods made after 1930 that are advertised as Dry Fly models are faster rods. The Phillipson Dry Fly Special and PHY Dry Fly Special are the ones that come to mind.
George
Wet fly fishermen used, and still use, a pick up/lay down cast with no false casting. This prevents the fly from drying out, and the slower, more limber action aids in protecting tippets and in strike detection. Wet fly tips aren't as fine, since the whole rod is fuller working. There's no big need to shoot line, as it can be worked out during a down-and-across presentation.
The standard Leonard Catskill rods were marketed as "all around" type rods, and that's pretty much what they were. Many bridge the gap between the faster DF models and the slower, heavier wet fly rods of yore.
It's true that rod actions got faster over time, this is of course true right into the glass and graphite era.
My .02, FWIW, etc.
Re: Dry fly verses wet fly rods
#15I'm pretty much in agreement with this, although I disagree that slow rods don't shoot line very well.Short Tip wrote: ↑05/10/21 15:56The rods sold specifically as "dry fly" rods were always quicker in action. The reason was false casting, a technique which came into vogue once the need for drying the fly was established. The best "dry fly" actioned rods almost always have fine tips and progressive actions. Slow rods aren't great for false casting, and they don't shoot line real well either.
Wet fly fishermen used, and still use, a pick up/lay down cast with no false casting. This prevents the fly from drying out, and the slower, more limber action aids in protecting tippets and in strike detection. Wet fly tips aren't as fine, since the whole rod is fuller working. There's no big need to shoot line, as it can be worked out during a down-and-across presentation.
The requirements of a dry fly are the ability to false cast swiftly enough to shake the water off the the fly, and the ability to hook a fish that's upstream of the angler (which requires a quick pickup.)
The requirements of a rod to fish wet flies downstream are to be able to cast without a lot of false casting, with an open loop (to minimize tangling of multiple flies) and the ability to function as a shock absorber for takes on a tight line. The latter has more to do with hooking fish as it does protecting tippet -- fish feed on insects by "inhaling" them and if there's no give, the fly won't even get into the the fish's mouth.
Given those requirements, it's easy to see why a faster rod is better suited to dry fly fishing, and a slower rod to downstream wet fly fishing.
Fishing wets upstream is better done on a faster rod (as W. C. Stewart pointed out a hundred and seventy years ago.)
Re: Dry fly verses wet fly rods
#16Well said. I should have said "don't shoot line AS well", the reason being that the more limber action tends to give a more curved path to the line through the guides, where the faster rod snaps straight more quickly, giving the line a straighter path with less friction. On the other hand, the wet fly rods tend to be very powerful since the whole rod is working for you, not just the upper half.redietz wrote: ↑05/11/21 12:20
I'm pretty much in agreement with this, although I disagree that slow rods don't shoot line very well.
The requirements of a dry fly are the ability to false cast swiftly enough to shake the water off the the fly, and the ability to hook a fish that's upstream of the angler (which requires a quick pickup.)
The requirements of a rod to fish wet flies downstream are to be able to cast without a lot of false casting, with an open loop (to minimize tangling of multiple flies) and the ability to function as a shock absorber for takes on a tight line. The latter has more to do with hooking fish as it does protecting tippet -- fish feed on insects by "inhaling" them and if there's no give, the fly won't even get into the the fish's mouth.
Given those requirements, it's easy to see why a faster rod is better suited to dry fly fishing, and a slower rod to downstream wet fly fishing.
Fishing wets upstream is better done on a faster rod (as W. C. Stewart pointed out a hundred and seventy years ago.)