Bamboo rod newbie- what should I expect?

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kakaryan
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Bamboo rod newbie- what should I expect?

#1

Post by kakaryan »

So I got a Saracione Mark I Trout 3 1/4" recently, which was intended for the Sage One 3110 Trout Spey rod. They match very nicely.

After looking at the classic rod and reel photos, I appreciate such matching combos. So, I am thinking of getting another classic looking single hand rod for this Saracione Trout reel, either a bamboo or a glass rod.

As a bamboo newbie, have never owned, or even fished any bamboo fly rods. I don't know how they feel. Only read that they are slow/parabolic action, and heavier. What should I expect?

I have rods from 3wt~12wt for different purposes. But most of my everyday fishing are done with 5~6wt graphite rod, fast action (mainly Sage). So if I am going to try a Bamboo, I am thinking a 6wt (or might be 5wt), for the versatility, and such weight seems to match a 3 1/4" Saracione Trout.

For a versatile, 6wt weight bamboo rod (which means not only a dry fly taper, but multi-tasks also for little weighted flies and streamers), currently in production (or discontinued but not difficult to source), 800USD or less, what options are there?

I was looking at the Epic (Swift from New Zealand) Bamboo kit, but a thread on here said that's not nice. Is that true?

Still deciding between getting my first bamboo, or building a classic looking glass rod.

THanks

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Re: Bamboo rod newbie- what should I expect?

#2

Post by G-ManBart »

There are so many quality rods out there that it can get confusing pretty quickly. For a first cane rod and keeping the budget affordable I'd suggest finding an Orvis Impregnated 7.5' 3 7/8oz rod...their standard, all-around, trout rod for years. They're listed as a 6wt, but cast a 5wt nicely as well.

They're nice rods and you can usually find them well under $800. I just bought a minty one-tip example for $450. Orvis made so many rods that the prices are what I would call artificially low for the quality of rod you get, but the resale stays good because they're such a known quantity. Unless you pay way too much you should always be able to get your money back out of one pretty easily.

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Re: Bamboo rod newbie- what should I expect?

#3

Post by henkverhaar »

Bamboo isn't necessarily slow (in action - the recovery speed of the material however is slower than that of (most) graphite composites), and certainly not necessarily parabolic. Both of these are conscious taper design choices by makers or buyers. Many bamboo tapers are progressive - some are even fast.

Bamboo is, by nature, heavier than tubular graphite, although not much heavier, or on a par with tubular glass (especially if hollow-built) and usually lighter than solid glass (although you may be hard-pressed to even find a solid glass fly rod these days - even in garage sales and such). However, my personal experience is that up until, say, 8' #5 rods, the difference is negligible. As far as I'm concerned it only becomes an issue to keep in mind with long salmon rods (think classic 14-16 foot traditional spey rods ;-) )

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Re: Bamboo rod newbie- what should I expect?

#4

Post by Caneghost »

The best thing you can do is to cast some bamboo rods. If you are a Sage guy, there will be a very different feel. Sage long ago forgot that fly rods were intended to bend. If there are any gatherings you can attend where you can handle and cast various different rods, that will help immeasurably in finding a rod to suit you. Don't try to punch the power stroke like you do with stiff graphite rods, that is counterproductive with cane. Take some time to feel the rod bending and loading and cast the line rather than punching and shooting it.

A 4 3/8 ounce 8' 2 piece Orvis would be a good choice cost and versatility wise to start out, but the Orvis rods are very full working tapers for the most part. Mine is marked for a DT7 or WF8 line and fishes beautifully with a WF6, but it isn't "fast" with the lighter line. Once you learn to feel the rod working and slow down your casting motions you will enter a whole new world! You will find a much more pleasant fishing experience I think and, if you are a good fly caster, you will adapt and be able to cover water of all types very well without the "power and line speed" schtick of graphite.
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Re: Bamboo rod newbie- what should I expect?

#5

Post by jimwright »

One thing that may help you acclimate to bamboo rods is instead of standing with both feet facing forward and looking forward when casting, keep the same target spot but turn 90 degrees to your right (if right handed) and visually acquire the line laying out horizontally on the back cast and "loading" the rod before making your forward cast. It's going to be slower than with your Sage rods.

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Flykuni3
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Re: Bamboo rod newbie- what should I expect?

#6

Post by Flykuni3 »

I agree w all posters above, from cane will be slower (heavier too) than what you're used to, Orvis is a good buy if you are starting, look behind you -- wait, wait, wait. And remember, Luke, the harder you force cane the less it works. Now, go my son.
Last edited by Flykuni3 on 09/17/21 14:57, edited 1 time in total.

kakaryan
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Re: Bamboo rod newbie- what should I expect?

#7

Post by kakaryan »

Thank you for all the reply.

I will try to find and cast one, and keep an eye on used Orvis bamboo rods.

The mentioned Orvis rods are long discontinued, right? I saw their current models are around the 2k~3k USD mark.

What is the reasonable price for a "first rod" that's good quality? I set the budget 800USD as it is about the price of the top end model graphite rods from the big names to date (though Sage bumped up to the 900 mark and Scott the 1000 in these recent two or three years >: ). If it is needed maybe I could extend my budget a bit....

I am also able to build rods from blanks. I have built a few graphite and glass already. So bamboo blanks (with ferrules installed already) is also an option. Where should I look at (within my budget) ?

Is the Epic (Swift) just chinese made bamboo blank which is not so good? I know their graphite and glass blanks are now made in Korea (not by CTS of New Zealand anymore)

Cheers.

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Re: Bamboo rod newbie- what should I expect?

#8

Post by Caneghost »

Your budget number should be adequate for a nice first rod. As mentioned, the older Orvis rods can be had for $325 to $795 for a number of the popular models. Stay with a US maker of you want to get a blank and roll your own. There are a few that sell ferruled blanks. Two I know of are Tim Zietak in Pittsburgh and Dennis Stone on the West Coast. I have a couple of Tim's rods and they are very nice, one of which was built by another rod builder from Tim's blank. Both of these gentlemen are on this forum, I believe Tim's handle is "Quadrate", though I don't recall Mr. Stone's.
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ibookje
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Bamboo rod newbie- what should I expect?

#9

Post by ibookje »

An Orvis bamboo can be had for around $500 +/- $100.
Could be a Battenkill or ‘99’ model. 7.5 - 8ft for a HDG (translates to a modern 6 weight) is pretty nice with a 5 weight line.

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Re: Bamboo rod newbie- what should I expect?

#10

Post by Brian K. Shaffer »

I am sure you will find bamboo rods are not crazy difficult slow. As mentioned above, you just need to cast bamboo.
Also, rod prices are better understood with research. Like me, you will find rods that are worth more than money.

Come back to this very thread in three months... twelve months... please do let us know your results.
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Re: Bamboo rod newbie- what should I expect?

#11

Post by G-ManBart »

kakaryan wrote:
09/17/21 04:18
The mentioned Orvis rods are long discontinued, right? I saw their current models are around the 2k~3k USD mark.

What is the reasonable price for a "first rod" that's good quality? I set the budget 800USD as it is about the price of the top end model graphite rods from the big names to date (though Sage bumped up to the 900 mark and Scott the 1000 in these recent two or three years >: ). If it is needed maybe I could extend my budget a bit....
Yes, the Orvis rods mentioned are older models that are no longer offered. With that said, I wouldn't consider it an issue/concern at all. The current models (I have an 1856) are very nice, but truthfully a small part of Orvis' business so my sense is they just pared things down to three models that cover the most ground where they had many models in the past that covered a broader scope.

I think the $800 budget for a first rod is very reasonable. In the beginning you're trying to decide if you like cane rods and develop a baseline. At that point it won't really help if you spend $3000 on a rod because you probably won't know what you want in one.

There are some new rods in the $1,500 range that can be had and are good quality, but it still might be overkill at this point. That's why I suggested a middle-of-the-road Orvis rod. If you have one of those, and decide you want something a bit different...say a touch faster, slower, etc, you can talk to most rod builders with that as a reference and it will mean something to them. They're common so pretty much any rod builder will be familiar and can use that as a guide to help you get what you want.

The big auction site is obviously an option, but there are several sites selling cane rods that are used or new from builders they have a relationship with that might be a good option. You can literally go to their site, see what they have in stock, know you're dealing with someone who knows his stuff, and get a quality rod. It might cost a touch more than you'd get on an auction site, but not always...just depends. I'm not sure if we can list some of the names of those sites or not....someone more experienced here than me might be able to help, or I can PM you a couple to take a look at. For example, one that I have dealt with in the past has an Orvis 7 1/2' 3 7/8oz rod listed right now...says it's beautiful and $575.

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mhill
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Re: Bamboo rod newbie- what should I expect?

#12

Post by mhill »

I would heartily recommend the Orvis rods from the secondary market. I've bought two at antiques shows in the last 2 years for $300-$400 in impeccible shape. At one of the shows I was also able to get a Leonard in the same price range. However, with that being said - there are plenty of "blue collar" rods that cast well at even lesser prices if you just want to get your feet wet - think Montague, Heddon, South Bend, Grainger, H-I among others.
Many, many fish have been caught with these rods. Many antique shops/malls will have some rod leaning up against the wall. In fact, I am about to go pick up a good and fishable condition Montague from a shop in a neighboring community for $120. It'll be on the water in a couple of weeks. The Dennis Stone blanks are a good value also - he'll work with you on taper, etc... Even buying some very good hardware - your budget would not be busted. However, he has not answered my last 3 e-mails.
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Re: Bamboo rod newbie- what should I expect?

#13

Post by Bugchucker »

I was in this same position 2 years ago (although you have nicer graphite rods!). Another charm of fly fishing is we can have different experiences with the same fishery just by changing the material of our rods.
I purchased a Dennis Stone blank so I had an idea as to what a legitimate bamboo rod should feel like. He has a very good reputation and was helpful in choosing the type of blank depending on what I intended to use it for, and the guide size and spacing.
If you don’t hear from him immediately, he is probably fishing as the smoke is finally clearing over here and it’s the best time of year : ).

In the film
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Re: Bamboo rod newbie- what should I expect?

#14

Post by In the film »

Also consider trying to locate someone in your area who owns a number of different bamboo rods and would be willing to let you cast a few. You could then identify preferences for a particular type rod (taper, length, weight, etc) and decide what works best.

I think roll casting is a great way to appreciate the dynamics of a bamboo rod, particularly when comparing to fast graphite.

Good luck!

Bill

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Re: Bamboo rod newbie- what should I expect?

#15

Post by ibookje »

Yes cast as many different rods as possible. You’ll start to see how many different actions there are and which one might be to your liking. And your taste will change!

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Flykuni3
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Re: Bamboo rod newbie- what should I expect?

#16

Post by Flykuni3 »

What kind of fishing do you do? That would help the suggestion box. (I like small streams, so most of my rods are 8' and under.)

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Re: Bamboo rod newbie- what should I expect?

#17

Post by Low Profile »

I'm just gonna focus on the rod. I purchased my first bamboo rod back around 1990 and made a mistake. I was die hard graphite guy and chose a very light line weight bamboo (7.5' 3wt) and was not impressed. Rod is a piece of art and paid an arm and leg for it. I was so locked into my casting stroke with graphite of the same line weight and the rod simply would not do what I wanted and, at that point in my life, I was in no mode to adjust my casting stroke. So the rod sat in my closet.

I never liked the movement toward fast action graphite rods and at some point I found upgrading from what I was used to (gen 1 loomis, scott G, HMG, orvis superfine) was becoming difficult and decided to revisit bamboo. Picked up several bamboo rods in the 7-8.5' length at auction and was pleasantly surprised. There was much experimenting with matching line weight and taper and, unlike graphite, you must find the line that feels best for both you and the rod. Let the bamboo tell you what line works best. My advise is to forget about line weight and focus on what you want out of the rod. If you are looking for faster action dry fly for medium streams focus on 5-7 wt 7.5-8' rods. Smaller stream 7-7.5' 4-6 wt. I have accumulated a boat load of 9' bamboo rods and yet to yet to find one that feels light enough in the tip end to do what I want it to do short of slinging streamers. Forget about euro-nymphing with bamboo. I'll probably get hammered for some of my statements but I don't care and that's just me.

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Re: Bamboo rod newbie- what should I expect?

#18

Post by Perry Palin »

This is a good thread. One thing that should be obvious, but may not be to a first time bamboo owner, is that the action or performance of bamboo rods will differ greatly even among rods of the same length and line weight. That's one of the reasons to try a rod before you buy it.

I have a number of 7 - 7 1/2' rods that I use with a 5wt line. No two alike. Some fast, some parabolic, and now that I think about it, some seem to like one brand of fly line better, some another.

I'll use a moderately fast 5wt rod for a while, and the next time out switch to a shorter, softer 3wt. I'm not an especially good caster, and I have to think about the 3wt for the first twenty minutes as I adjust my casting stroke to get my best from that little rod.

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Re: Bamboo rod newbie- what should I expect?

#19

Post by kakaryan »

Thank you again for all the valuable input. :wave

Just talked to a local mate he has some bamboo rods which I could try the next time we meet. :-*

Those he has are all smaller rods (around 3wt 6~7ft). I expressed to him that I am thinking that I might want a 5/6wt ~8ft. His comment was that it might be heavy, like casting a 12wt graphite rod, that I might not like. ::) I am not sure, may have to try one first, and decide. Do you agree such comment? Having cast some 11 and 12wt graphite rod I think the rod itself is not heavy, the tiring part is false casting the heavy 11 and 12wt flyline in the air. It is the line causing tiring feeling.

And where do I fish? --- as expressed in my first post my thinking is a bit backward this time. I got a Saracione 3 1/4" 6oz Trout reel, and I want to find a classic looking reel to match it. I guess a 8ft 5/6wt bamboo/glass rod would be a good match, physically balanced, and versatile for my fishing (be it trout, bass, carp, etc). Do you agree such weight and length bamboo rod should balance a 6oz reel (empty weight)? What rod weight (physical weight) should I be looking to pair with a 6oz reel? The X1.5 rule? So a ~4oz rod?

I'll start doing my research this weekend, reading threads on this very nice forum.

Cheers.
Last edited by kakaryan on 09/19/21 04:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bamboo rod newbie- what should I expect?

#20

Post by kakaryan »

PS: I have to repeat. For a versatile rod I want it to be able to cast weighted flies, such as weighted nymphs, streamers, and wooly buggers. Not a pure dry fly rod.

Would this affect my choice on the rod taper? I read many bamboo rods, especially those small creek models, are said to be designed with dry fly taper.

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