rough planer suggestions

This board is for discussing the repair and restoration of bamboo fly rods, makers discussion and construction techniques relating to same. Examples would be different techniques or methods used by restorationists and makers.

Moderator: Titelines

Post Reply
sanderson
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: 06/29/20 19:55

rough planer suggestions

#1

Post by sanderson »

I'm on 4th rod, enjoying everything but roughing 60's. Seems about 1/2 my strips end up with bad angles, and they almost always, are on opposite sides of the enamel(from each other). What causes this? And, should I bite the bullet and just go with a power beveler? I'm able to get solid triangles through secondary and final planing, but think this is because of luck. I'd really appreciate some suggestions.

bluesjay
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 3853
Joined: 12/26/11 12:08

Re: rough planer suggestions

#2

Post by bluesjay »

Hi Guys, I have found if one side is bad the other side will be. You need to get one side to be a good 60 degrees, then proceed. Anything less makes it impossible.


Edit: Just to be clear, I use a mill with 60 degree mill cutters to get my 60. I try really hard to not lose it, by keeping my spline deep into the form.

Jay Edwards
Last edited by bluesjay on 10/19/20 13:44, edited 1 time in total.

Livingstone
Master Guide
Posts: 490
Joined: 08/26/12 07:54
Location: Canada

Re: rough planer suggestions

#3

Post by Livingstone »

Hi,I have a shoulder with a metal plate so a rough beveler makes sense. I use the Quinchat beveler, way more positives than negatives.Livingstone.

jim royston
Master Guide
Posts: 720
Joined: 08/20/08 18:00

Re: rough planer suggestions

#4

Post by jim royston »

I agree with Jay. If you rough plane, you need to get a 60 degree bevel on one surface first.

perfesser
Guide
Posts: 249
Joined: 06/30/19 20:52
Location: south carolina

Re: rough planer suggestions

#5

Post by perfesser »

i made a baginski style beveler for roughing untapered quad strips. you can make a baginski style beveler with a new harbor freight 1/3rd hp grinder motor, monsos wheels and the various oak and plexiglas parts necessary for under $200. if you already have a 6" grinder, take the wheels off and use that. mike monsos sells both 45 & 90 degree wheels for about $100. mike mcquire has a great build tutorial on making one of these bevelers that i followed, except my anvil is below the wheels rather than above. both of these gentlemen quickly come up in a google search.

and wear gloves pulling the strips through.

just saw in the classifieds there's a set of wheels for sale right now.

User avatar
Mike McGuire
Master Guide
Posts: 632
Joined: 03/16/10 19:00

Re: rough planer suggestions

#6

Post by Mike McGuire »

Here is the link to my Baginski article--http://mmcgr.users.sonic.net/Beveler/Ba ... veler.html

Mike
A Selection of my DIY Rodmaking Tools

User avatar
henkverhaar
Master Guide
Posts: 558
Joined: 07/02/16 15:37

Re: rough planer suggestions

#7

Post by henkverhaar »

perfesser wrote:
10/16/20 18:36
(on baginski style beveler) and wear gloves pulling the strips through.
Really? In my experience there are many more 'risky' steps in preparing tapered strips than bevelling - as far as cuts and splinters are concerned. These days, I only wear (heavy) gloves when removing (hacking) diaphragms from individual strips (I split first, with diaphragms/dams in place, then remove them from individual strips; its just what works for me). I think kickback from a beveler is a more serious risk than cuts and splinters - the splinters from feeding a strip through are usually easily found and removed ;-) I prefer feeling the behaviour of the strip over wearing gloves...

perfesser
Guide
Posts: 249
Joined: 06/30/19 20:52
Location: south carolina

Re: rough planer suggestions

#8

Post by perfesser »

gloves could be unnecessary for some. i run my strips in against the wheel (climb cut) so i have to pull them through. i'm also cutting quads not 60's. edges are splintery. maybe i'm just clumsy. i also cut myself on milled strips from my handmill. i usually wear gloves and safety glasses running the saw and handplaner's friend as well.

User avatar
Tim Anderson
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 1100
Joined: 10/31/08 19:00
Location: Lafayette, CA

Re: rough planer suggestions

#9

Post by Tim Anderson »

For almost all of my cane work including pulling strips through my Baginski beveler, I wear these gloves: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012 ... UTF8&psc=1. They are thin, allow a great deal of feel, and the inner surface is very tough. Why do I wear gloves? I bleed like the proverbial stuck pig and don't need blood stains on my bamboo.

As many know, I am a great fan of the Baginski beveler. My first version years ago had anti-kickback provisions. I soon removed those and have nothing similar in the version I now use. For safety reasons, I stand in front of the machine while using it, but must say that there is very little kickback effect during use.

Tim

joehudock
Guide
Posts: 153
Joined: 03/28/14 07:33

Re: rough planer suggestions

#10

Post by joehudock »

bluesjay wrote:
10/15/20 19:45
Hi Guys, I have found if one side is bad the other side will be. You need to get one side to be a good 60 degrees, then proceed. Anything less makes it impossible.

Jay Edwards
Before getting that first good 60 degree angle in the roughing form I square up the opposite side that goes down into the roughing form if that split side is not close to square to the enamel side. Lots of folks do just fine starting the split strip in the intermediate form and some just use the final form for roughing through final planing. That's not me. I really do best using the roughing form to get that first angle and need the better strip support from the deep groove in the intermediate form to get good 60s on the rough planed strips.

User avatar
henkverhaar
Master Guide
Posts: 558
Joined: 07/02/16 15:37

Re: rough planer suggestions

#11

Post by henkverhaar »

perfesser wrote:
10/17/20 16:32
i run my strips in against the wheel (climb cut) so i have to pull them through.
I also run then against the wheel rotation, anvil below the wheel (so from behind the grinder if you convert a bench grinder to a beveler), but I push the strips through almost all the way. I only pull the final 6 inches of so, when the 'butt end' of the strip is within the beveler's enclosure in its entirety.

User avatar
tapermaker
Master Guide
Posts: 859
Joined: 05/20/06 18:00

Re: rough planer suggestions

#12

Post by tapermaker »

I have used a handplaners friend from bellingers for 20 yrs.never had trouble getting a 60 degree angle.

User avatar
BigTJ
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 3152
Joined: 06/04/06 18:00

Re: rough planer suggestions

#13

Post by BigTJ »

With respect to others that have had different experiences than me, I have not found I need a good sixty on one side, either while hand planing or roughing. With the right setup and lighter cuts the strips “find their way”. These days I cut my strips on a band saw and do very little straightening and they go right into my Quinchat multi track with only the nodal humps sanded off. But in the old days when roughing by hand I ended up ditching those preliminary forms and just used my regular forms to rough.

Getting bad angles could come from a few things but the most likely is how you are holding the plane compared to the form. Get a mirror put it at the end of your forms and watch to ensure the sole of the plane is perpendicular to the surface of your forms. The best analogy to me is the feeling like you are ice skating only with your hand. There is a definite feel to it, balanced and trusting but at the same time firm. You can’t just go at it you have to be conscious of what you are doing at all times. Take lighter cuts, 3 or 4 thou, flipping frequently. until your angles start to come together. You are also better off to start with strips that are squared up and pretty well prepped. Off angled or wonky strips are a crapshoot - not impossible but not easy either.

Last thing - a beveller makes a lot of sense it’s easier on your shoulder and tendons and saves time. But it has a learning curve and strip prep needs to be right for the machine you are using all have slightly different requirements. It is possible to destroy strips at a staggering rate under power so plan on spending time getting to know your machine and ruin some strips in the process should you decide to go that route. I have figured out how to minimize strip prep with my machine however as a general rule I’d say strip prep is even more critical under power that it is planing by hand. You can’t go wrong with well prepped strips.

John
Last edited by BigTJ on 10/19/20 12:49, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Gnome
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 3775
Joined: 12/23/04 19:00

Re: rough planer suggestions

#14

Post by Gnome »

+1000 for TJ's comments above!!

User avatar
LeeO
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 1178
Joined: 06/11/08 18:00
Location: Charleston WV
Contact:

Re: rough planer suggestions

#15

Post by LeeO »

I use my final forms to rough strips. During my speed rod build experiment I found that strip prep greatly impacted angles. Particularly with sweeps and bends at nodes. I now will spend even more time straightening strips. Of course, this will not be everyone’s experience and the best method is to simply plane more strips
Lee Orr
304 Rod Company

http://www.304rodcompany.com

sanderson
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: 06/29/20 19:55

Re: rough planer suggestions

#16

Post by sanderson »

thanks for the insight. I'm probably going a little fast on the strip prep, the strips have been coming out pretty solid by the time I've finished secondary planing, but I have to do a lot more adjusting throughout the process. still, feel I may go the route of a JW beveler, though researching others.

JimmyB11
Bamboo Fanatic
Posts: 1824
Joined: 06/10/07 18:00
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: rough planer suggestions

#17

Post by JimmyB11 »

Having run an incredible amount of strips for myself, others and demos and tests, as in thousands, I have never had a strip "kick back" at me, my machine is extremely safe. The same goes for "mangling strips or destroying strips", it is not an issue. A well made, properly adjusted machine is a joy to use and saves so much time and renders a properly shaped strip for hand planing. I could not imagine my rod making without it. As for strip preparation, the more you do, the better the rod becomes, it is not glamorous but spending the time saves headaches and heartache down the line whether you use a beveller or not. It is just good practice.I use a Bellinger Little Giant rougher, this is a third generation machine, I had the second gen with a "full size motor" which was a little frustrating but the current router based machine is amazing.

Post Reply

Return to “Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods.”