Which ink for signature with gorilla glue finish

Bobby Marlene · Post by **Bobby Marlene** » 05/02/20 15:27

I want to use Gorilla glue as finish on a rod I made. What should I use for the signature? I used Pigma Micron pens for my rods. But is there a risk that I rub that off or smear it when applying the glue finish?
Thanks for help, stay safe, Bobby

Proofflyfishing · Post by **Proofflyfishing** » 05/02/20 19:27

I think your best bet is going to finish the blank with glue. When you are satisfied with the finish lightly rough up the area you will be writing on using a good India ink pen and then seal the signature with varnish or a two part epoxy.

Tim Anderson · Post by **Tim Anderson** » 05/02/20 19:36

If you write directly on the bamboo before putting on any finish, all you have to do is let the ink dry thoroughly. It is possible that the Gorilla Glue will pick up some of the ink, but should not remove all of it.

Finishing first with Gorilla Glue and then writing on the blank can present problems. Many inks stand slightly proud of the finished surface and are then easily rubbed off. ZIG Millenium stays quite flat and, once thoroughly dry, can be carefully coated with Gorilla Glue. Some go over the signature with varnish to seal it in. I scrimshaw my signature, so there is no danger of it rubbing off.

I just saw the proofflyfishing response. Good advice.

Tim

Canewrap · Post by **Canewrap** » 05/02/20 22:38

I finished a blank recently with PU glue, 2 coats and then let it dry. This is the first I used a PU glue as a finish. Then I sanded the area for the signature and then used a Zig Millennium to put on the signature. Let it dry and then used Al's Colorite CP to seal it. Leaned that trick a while ago. Then, I was able to coat the signature area with epoxy.

BigTJ · Post by **BigTJ** » 05/03/20 07:24

Second the CP overcoat. Have also had good luck with the water based varnishes like Minwax.

GrayHackleRods · Post by **GrayHackleRods** » 05/03/20 12:55

I use Staedtler Pigment Liners, .1 or .2 mm wide, https://www.amazon.com/Staedtler-Pigmen ... ler&sr=8-3. After doing the inscription on the rod, tape off the area of the inscription, then lightly spray with semi gloss enamel. Once the enamel is dry apply the GG, no runs no streaks no errors. You can also use Leroy lettering pens which use India ink cartridges.

Bobby Marlene · Post by **Bobby Marlene** » 05/03/20 13:16

Thank you all very much! I think I will do some experimenting before actially work on the rod. It frightens me a bit...
Thanks again, stay safe, Bobby

henkverhaar · Post by **henkverhaar** » 05/04/20 01:35

I use old-fashioned india ink, with a nib, to write ON the PU/Gorilla Glue finish, then cover the signature part with regular varnish (need to varnish the wraps anyway. For tip sections and (if doing multipiece rods) middle sections, I write (india ink) on the section that will then be covered by the long ferrule 'scrim' silk wrap (I do exclusively bamboo ferrules these days); once soaked with thinned varnish, the wrap becomes transparent and the writing is nicely visible through the varnished wrap.

David4Him · Post by **David4Him** » 05/07/20 11:29

henkverhaar, I'm intrigued by your description, but having trouble visualizing what your describing. Maybe overthinking it. By 'scrim' wrap, are you talking about what would be an invisible wrap like one would do to strengthen a damaged section? Or, is it something more dressed up for the signature wrap? If you have one, perhaps a pic would help.

thanks, David

Tim Anderson · Post by **Tim Anderson** » 05/07/20 15:36

I'll let henkverhaar provide his own answer. I do think I understand what he means.

For most bamboo ferrules and the carbon-fiber sleeve-spigot ferrules I make, the ferrule area is wrapped in a silk that becomes transparent when soaked with finish. Markings in India ink under the silk show through beautifully. The transparent silk wrap is to provide added hoop strength for the ferrule. In my case, the silk wrap is long and has no features that make it different from other wraps. So, yes, it is like an "invisible" wrap for a repair.

Tim

henkverhaar · Post by **henkverhaar** » 05/08/20 01:19

Yeah, a scrim wrap is just that, a single long wrap (I use undyed silk) over the entire length of the hollowed bamboo female ferrule. Without such a wrap, the glued-up thin ferrule wall strips would never stay together under the pressure of the male ferrule being forced in. Ever look closely at a glass or graphite tip over butt sleeve ferrule - they also have extra scrim material over the length of the female. If you do NOT burnish the wrap, its relatively easy to render the wrap totally invisible/transparent, by soaking it with thinned (heavily thinned) varnish. So much so that everything underneath (including script) is as visible as if the silk weren't even there.

sanderson · Post by **sanderson** » 10/16/20 18:18

way late on a reply, but I've finished my last 2 rods with GG. first 3 coats, then steel wool, then sign with micron pigment ink. One light coat of ace spar varnish over signature section of rod. Dry 24 hr. and sanded, 3 more coats GG. No loss of ink, and a benefit, varnish, after sanding and application of the 3 coats of GG, took on the gloss of the rest of butt section. I use 10 coats of GG total, but after 6, I see nice results on the finish and the signature.

henkverhaar · Post by **henkverhaar** » 10/17/20 14:56

Proofflyfishing wrote: ↑
05/02/20 19:27
When you are satisfied with the finish lightly rough up the area you will be writing on using a good India ink pen and then seal the signature with varnish or a two part epoxy.

+1 ; use fine sandpaper (240 grit or up, to prepare the area to write on, and use plain india ink. Since my signature area has thread wraps both below and above, the entire section (winding check wrap, signature area, upper wrap) gets varnished afterwards.

jan96 · Post by **jan96** » 10/18/20 04:15

For signing all my rods I use Rotring Rapidograph, no matter if they are varnished or finished with polyurethane glue.
With varnished rods I add first coat of varnish, the next day I lightly rub the area where the inscriptions come, do the writings I want, varnish another three coats every 24 hours. Ink is secured between layers of varnish.
With poly glue I do almost the same with the only difference in number of coats as the poly glue adds very little thickness per layer.. I add three to four coats of glue every two hours. Lightly sand the "writings area", execute the writings, add another 15-20 coats of poly glue every two hours. Ink is secured between layers of glue..
r

oddsnrods · Post by **oddsnrods** » 10/18/20 05:47

Nice pen set.

Being a graphic designer in those dim and distant days when Rotring pens were used professionally, the one concern I would have is with the very thin wire which runs through the tip weighted with a tiny lead. When the nib touches the surface to draw or write, the wire comes up against the surface pushing up said weight and the ink flows. The fine wire could leave a minute scratch in the bamboo, not an issue if you get it right first time, a little sanding may be needed if you didn't.

I was to later become relatively proficient using pen and ink for illustration work, 'dip pen's' they are traditionally called, and found that the pigment rich Acrylic Artists Ink (which come in various colours) are just the job for bamboo being light fast, waterproof and very dark; in contrast with fine liner type pens where the pigment can be relatively thin. I mostly like them as I can apply more pressure or tilt the pen as I write, for the thin and thick parts of the lettering. I also often use a fountain pen to write, although on paper..

For almost 50 years Cath Pearson signed Hardy's rods, using a 'dip pen' in ink, initially black for the bamboo, then white for the graphite and glass rods, until her retirement in 2003.

I have long admired the signing of Hardy rods so follow their tradition. My signing process also tends to wind up the blank as Hardys did, and is relatively straightforward. Scotch tape is spiralled up the blank, which has no finish applied, and I lightly pencil in small marks for the angle on the flats, remove tape then write, by way of practice, to work out the letter and word spacing.

Using a very fine nib (often called a mapping pen or crow quill) the end of which has been gently papered to make sure there are no burrs to scratch and making sure the ink is of the right consistency and flowing well, off I go up the blank, aiming to write the letters as small as possible, if a lower case letter fills in I can wipe it off easily with a moistened tissue before it dries.

As mentioned the pigment is very dense so the ink sits on top rather than spreading (microscopically) into the bamboo fibres, as the water in it dries it of course reduces flat. If wiping off any mistakes leaves a slight 'shadow' I will gently scrape the area with a blade rather than sand, again to keep the area smooth.

I have followed this process to all of my 30+ rods and staffs and applied various varnishes on top. Latterly I have preferred Tru-Oil as an easy wipe on finish. No problem at all with the ink underneath, however I do have to be careful if I steel wool for a satin finish (steel wool and Tru- Oil Stock conditioner) as I could take off any ink which sits on the actual corner of the hex. On my latest rod I left the signing area gloss and rubbed further up, the finish is very similar to the Gorilla Glue mentioned, and is very easy to wipe on for a very thin and hard finish. Six coats usually does it with no sanding or polishing in between coats usually.

Would this inking technique work over a finish, even Tru- Oil, maybe, however any ink, water based or not will spread very slightly, making those fine 'descender' tails of my sometimes very small lettering somewhat thicker, whereas the natural surface of the bamboo is hard and 'grabs' the ink easily, so is like writing on real vellum.

Malcolm

jan96 · Post by **jan96** » 10/18/20 06:12

Malcolm, your writings on these rods are truly "out of this world"!! Even nicer than "originals" on Hardy rods!!
My Rotring set of Rapidographs is from 1979 when I started the high school. The problem with the "needle" of the rapidograph you were reffering to is a bit of problem. I agree on this. Pen should be held almost perpendicular on the rod's surface to let the ink "flow" while writing..
r

oddsnrods · Post by **oddsnrods** » 10/18/20 06:37

Thank you. I do admire your signatures as well, very clean and tidy. I would write on the flats as it is easier, but somehow continue to tax myself with the spiralling text, sometimes all of the way round and up..I tend to date and number on the back flat, again very small.

The trick is to breath very slowly as you write..

Malcolm

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