Re: Torzite guides/Titan scrim?/Censoring Moderator

This board is for discussing the repair and restoration of bamboo fly rods, makers discussion and construction techniques relating to same. Examples would be different techniques or methods used by restorationists and makers.

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Gnome
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Re: Torzite guides/Titan scrim?/Censoring Moderator

#81

Post by Gnome »

LeeO wrote:
06/25/20 09:54
So are they US makers of these guides? I try my best to avoid off shore products, with the exception of tip tops - I can’t find light wire from as US maker.
The foundation of your rods comes from China but heaven forbid we mention that when you say you avoid offshore products. There are not any makers of Ceramic Nitride guides here in the US that I know of. Franknrod, Good on Ya! and they do cast incredibly well don't they? And the question about light wire has nothing to do with the Torzite/Ceramic nitride guides being as they are not twisted wire, very far from it.

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Re: Torzite guides/Titan scrim?/Censoring Moderator

#82

Post by LeeO »

The light wire comment was an aside. Made in the US is an absolute priority for me. If I get US produced bamboo I would switch tomorrow. Just a question. I probably won’t be making the change would be curious to try them
Lee Orr
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http://www.304rodcompany.com

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Pentalux
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Re: Re: Torzite guides/Titan scrim?/Censoring Moderator

#83

Post by Pentalux »

Franknrod wrote:
06/25/20 16:30
It is hard to be more "traditional" than Halford. If he was open to innovations that improved fly rod performance, perhaps we should also.
Well said Franknrod. Couldn't agree more - interestingly Halford was also one of the first fans of the five-strip. His favorite dry fly rod, so named "Priceless" by his fishing friends, had pentagonal tips and is most likely where Robert Crompton got the idea to build entire rod as. I'm sure if either of these giants in the history of the bamboo fly rod were around today they would have Torzite's on their rods.

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WIHEXROD
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Re: Re: Torzite guides/Titan scrim?/Censoring Moderator

#84

Post by WIHEXROD »

At the NRG this fall, we will have a tri guided rod to cast. Oversize snakes, undersize snakes and torzites on alternating flats. Should be very interesting to cast and evaluate.
Scott
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mer
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Re: Re: Torzite guides/Titan scrim?/Censoring Moderator

#85

Post by mer »

Scott, that's a neat idea. I'm trying to picture the tip-top :)

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Re: Re: Torzite guides/Titan scrim?/Censoring Moderator

#86

Post by WIHEXROD »

Three single foot snakes instead of a tip top. The reelseat is a pocketed butt cap and ring with the cap attached with a pin on the bottom so it can be rotated.
The rod is a one piece 7' 6" perfectionist taper.

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Re: Re: Torzite guides/Titan scrim?/Censoring Moderator

#87

Post by henkverhaar »

Gnome wrote:
04/08/20 07:04
Don't be bound by the small guide tradition which I have found to definitely be, NOT for me!! I prefer the guides to be large and less restrictive from my experience with them and the S.I.C.'s over 3+ decades.
My 'problem' with large single foot guides is that the foot is quite often way too wide for a bamboo flat on a tip section. I have no idea whether that is also true for Torzites or other SiN guides. For my next build (a 7' 4 wt 3 pc), I've ordered a set of SiN guides from Proofflyfishing. Once in, and put on the blank (which is currently awaiting glue-up), I'll report back on my experiences - both fitting and casting...

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mer
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Re: Re: Torzite guides/Titan scrim?/Censoring Moderator

#88

Post by mer »

WIHEXROD wrote:
06/26/20 14:37
Three single foot snakes instead of a tip top. The reelseat is a pocketed butt cap and ring with the cap attached with a pin on the bottom so it can be rotated.
The rod is a one piece 7' 6" perfectionist taper.
Nice. I think that is a good choice for the taper.

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Re: Re: Torzite guides/Titan scrim?/Censoring Moderator

#89

Post by Gnome »

Scott

you will lose a tremendous amount of what you gain with the Torzites due to using a wire tip-top so you all should take that rod and in your comparison please realize that by not using a CiN tip-top you are effectively changing your results because there are not CiN guides the whole length and the tip-top is critical for the drop in friction so this test must carry a caveat that without a CiN tip-top you will not realize the full effect of the Torzites. IMHO

edit #2 ; why not use a CiN single foot for the tip-top for the CiN flat? It would be a better test due to the 2 points of most friction being the tip top and the stripping guide. Using a wire tip-top with the CiN guides is self-defeating and is setting up the test to fail as far as the drop in friction achieved with the CiN guides.

"Single foot Quixote" for 3.5 decades and my lance was just recently sharpened so I am ready for the next decades of jousting at the snake guide windmill!

Don "Gnome" Quixote'

P.S. and don't be afraid of fitting the foot down to flat size to fit the rod. At times we must be able to make things how we want them with supplied materials through our own abilities and narrowing the feet is not a problem for small rods. Not everything is good to go right out of the box in a custom world and may require some extra handwork but the efforts are well worth it in my book :eek

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Re: Re: Torzite guides/Titan scrim?/Censoring Moderator

#90

Post by WIHEXROD »

Jeff,
Will definetly use a Torzite single foot on the Torzide guide train, filed as needed.
Scott

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Re: Re: Torzite guides/Titan scrim?/Censoring Moderator

#91

Post by henkverhaar »

Gnome wrote:
06/27/20 07:01
P.S. and don't be afraid of fitting the foot down to flat size to fit the rod. At times we must be able to make things how we want them with supplied materials through our own abilities and narrowing the feet is not a problem for small rods. Not everything is good to go right out of the box in a custom world and may require some extra handwork but the efforts are well worth it in my book :eek
Oh crap - why didn't I think of that myself ;-)

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Re: Torzite guides

#92

Post by cwfly »

Gnome wrote:
01/10/18 08:40
Boy does line fly through these guides. Definitely NOT!!! for the average angler but any angler who fishes hard and in extreme environments should consider these guides. They will not wear out on the redfish flats etc. And talk about effortless delivery in close WOW!!!!!~!~
So this is very emphatic. These guides are "definitely NOT!!!" for most of us, correct?

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Gnome
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Re: Re: Torzite guides/Titan scrim?/Censoring Moderator

#93

Post by Gnome »

I should have said they are not for the tradition-bound angler wrong choice of words on my part and if the average angler uses a rod with these guides they will be using a more efficient tool and thus would be a better angler. So they are for all anglers! And especially for the hardcore angler!

It is amazing how advancing the fly rods technology causes so much angst among the older established anglers who seem to be incredibly threatened by not using a cheap piece of twisted wire for the guides,
( don't use or believe in them and will not try them and no one else should either! seems to be their mantra).

A classic case of history repeating itself and the parable is how long it took for the anglers to accept snakes over, hanging rings. close to 50 years or a 40 plus year bout with whether or not Tonkin over Calcutta.

I will never understand the fight against improving a fishing rod through the use of something not normally accepted. If it makes the tool better why not and saying because it is not traditional is nowhere near enough reason to not improve the tool if we can. My museum shows a constant evolution even though slow at times over a 200 year period and for some strange reason, there seems to be a big flashing red light in the 50's that many seem to believe that this is it! No farther to go with the bamboo rod and that is sad!

I have received several emails about it from past detractors of my thoughts about guides and even a couple that was sent and then deleted by the sender. To those guys "Tough grits for you"!

P.S. Scott, why not a pair of slide bands on a round seat with a larger cork butt cap, then you do not have to monkey with a pocketed cap and pin, might be easier to contend with or even a tri hex type seat with three flats worked in and aligned with the guide flats. might be easier that way than messing with a pinned pocketed cap which I see as a very possible PITA.

Proofflyfishing
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Re: Re: Torzite guides/Titan scrim?/Censoring Moderator

#94

Post by Proofflyfishing »

Very interesting discussion. I carry the SN tip tops, guides, and stripping guides. If anyone wants to try them out just to see how you like them I would be willing to work with you on a special "first time" guide set price. Just send me a quick PM or you can contact me through the link in my signature below.
http://www.proofflyfishing.com
Tutorials, cork, reel seats, Snake Brand guides, agate guides...

GBU31v1
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Re: Re: Torzite guides/Titan scrim?/Censoring Moderator

#95

Post by GBU31v1 »

For me I think it’s simply a matter of old rods. I don’t buy new rods. Were I having a rod made I would certainly consider something like this which would make the rod cast better. Particularly for larger species/salt applications. But I fish old stuff and I’m not going to go in on a rod built say 50 years ago and swap components and original workmanship for something like these guides. It would be cool to try them out and if I do end up having a rod built I’ll certainly consider it. But my old stuff stays original.

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Re: Re: Torzite guides/Titan scrim?/Censoring Moderator

#96

Post by Gnome »

never once have I said that the old rods should have their guides replaced. Now new rods should be given the opportunity to perform at their best. Nuff said

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Re: Re: Torzite guides/Titan scrim?/Censoring Moderator

#97

Post by GBU31v1 »

*high five*

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Re: Re: Torzite guides/Titan scrim?/Censoring Moderator

#98

Post by Gnome »

I must correct myself here and thanks for the high five!

The Southbend #469 the fly and spin 7' 2 piece is one candidate for customization. Strip the cork and you find a heavily swelled butt that when rebuilt as a pure flyrod becomes a beast of a 7 wt and makes into an awesome pike and bass rod. Marc Aroner fishes shorter rods for Atlantic salmon and this would slide into that category as well. Put the CiN guides on it and hang on because it will be trying to tear itself out of your hands with a good double haul.

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Re: Re: Torzite guides/Titan scrim?/Censoring Moderator

#99

Post by mwfick »

Proofflyfishing wrote:
06/28/20 09:08
Very interesting discussion. I carry the SN tip tops, guides, and stripping guides. If anyone wants to try them out just to see how you like them I would be willing to work with you on a special "first time" guide set price. Just send me a quick PM or you can contact me through the link in my signature below.
Hey Matt
Looking over your offerings I notice your tip tops are all trussed. For me, that says spinning rod, just an aesthetic thing but it's a bit of a stumbling block for me.
Do your suppliers offer any unbraced tip tops?
Mike
Last edited by mwfick on 06/29/20 10:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Re: Torzite guides/Titan scrim?/Censoring Moderator

#100

Post by samsonboi »

You use a single foot guide as the tip top.
"Car ce n'est pas assez d'avoir l'esprit bon, mais le principal est de l'appliquer bien.”- Descartes

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