Re: Torzite guides/Titan scrim?/Censoring Moderator

Tom Smithwick · Post by **Tom Smithwick** » 05/09/18 14:12

OK - So I tried a set of these on a Bokstrom 908 taper, which is a solid built, moderate action 9 foot 8 weight. While I can be accused of doing some unorthodox things over the years, I basically don't like anything except bronze finish snakes on a cane rod. I thought I would hate the looks of these things, but I don't. I'll post some pictures later.
I just got a new Joan Wulff signature 8 weight line to go with the rod, and took it out to lawn cast it. Holy Smoke! I was easily putting the backing knot into the guides, and likely could have done better it I had some more room. I am well past my prime as a caster, that should not be happening. I was almost hoping the guides would not work well, because they are expensive, but I won't have that excuse. They do work. On a trout rod for small water? Maybe not worth it, but on a big water rod? I will have to consider them, they do represent a step up over what we have been doing. I will bring the rod to the Hardy Cup this summer and let people cast it. The guides we sized from a #12 stripper to #6 at the tip, FWIW.
Oh, and I should say the line is great as well if you haven't tried one.

Tom Smithwick · Post by **Tom Smithwick** » 05/10/18 07:55

#6 torzite guide and tiptop. The look is certainly different, but I can get used to it on a rod designed to perform

#15 duronze ferrule, #10 torzite guide. Also looks clean and efficient.

They only offer a high frame stripper, the looks of that will take some getting used to, but no denying the effectiveness.

Prairie Drifter · Post by **Prairie Drifter** » 05/10/18 10:57

Tom
Which model of single foots did you use? I see three models.

Tom Smithwick · Post by **Tom Smithwick** » 05/10/18 14:47

I used the TKTTG single foots, and the TKWTG stripping guide. I am still marveling at how little friction there was when casting. It was sort of like casting a shooting head with mono running line without the worry of tangles. Unfortunately, there does seem to be a shortage of the things. I wound up going to both Lure Parts Online in the US and Hopkins and Holloway in England to get all the sizes. Both good to deal with, but I hope the shortage is temporary.

Gnome · Post by **Gnome** » 06/07/18 08:47

and the higher line speed generated by the use of the Torzite guides allows you to more effectively fight hard windy conditions. Good for you Tom for taking the "Torzite" plunge,. in the words of the south Islanders "Good on Ya Mate"

Gnome · Post by **Gnome** » 06/15/18 08:16

Fished a small stream yesterday and found that the Torzites really aid in shooting line on a roll cast , Awesome stuff!!!!!!~!

carlz · Post by **carlz** » 06/26/18 17:45

Tom Smithwick wrote:I used the TKTTG single foots, and the TKWTG stripping guide. I am still marveling at how little friction there was when casting. It was sort of like casting a shooting head with mono running line without the worry of tangles. Unfortunately, there does seem to be a shortage of the things. I wound up going to both Lure Parts Online in the US and Hopkins and Holloway in England to get all the sizes. Both good to deal with, but I hope the shortage is temporary.

Tom, is there any way you could give me an idea on the ID of the size 6 guide? Maybe a picture with a pencil in it? I hate the way OD is used for these guides. I'm looking at using it on a 6 or 7wt rod. I probably don't want 4.5's but 6 might be a bit large.

As for cost, it's cheaper than the gold cermet guides.

Tom Smithwick · Post by **Tom Smithwick** » 06/27/18 07:51

Hi Carl - I also wish they would sell these by ID, which would save some head scratching. The information is available, you just have to look for it. Guidesnblanks is the online store of Hopkins and Holloway. They have the size chart posted here:
http://www.guidesnblanks.com/page/faq/F ... _rod_guide
I let a friend cast the 8 weight, and he immediately wanted a graphite 5 weight travel rod for Western fishing. He got a blank, and I put it together for him. I used a #10 single foot for a stripper, then graduated down to two 5 1/2's at the tip and a #4 tip top with a 5.5 ring. I thought the 5.5 size looked small and I was nervous about it, but they worked fine. The rod turned out to be a bit fussy about lines, but we found a couple that really worked. It seemed to like lines on the heavier side. Even with the lines that didn't work so well, you could feel the smoothness in the guides. I would be tempted to go with the 6's on a 6/7 weight. The single foot made a very good looking stripper, and Fuji shapes the feet to stay put when wrapped.

kenwey4534 · Post by **kenwey4534** » 06/29/18 07:36

You guys have me curious. I am going to try these on a prototype spey rod and see the magic for myself.

Gnome · Post by **Gnome** » 07/02/18 07:36

Ken, good for you!!! looking forward to hearing about your results with these slick little buggers!!!!

coachmancaster · Post by **coachmancaster** » 07/02/18 07:56

Well, this thread answers a question I've had but never posted. "Why do fly rods have snake guides rather than low friction guides like spinning rods?"
The answer seems to have been, "because." (Tradition).
Interesting.

Gnome · Post by **Gnome** » 07/02/18 08:17

the search for high durability and low friction which includes the use of agate lined guides goes back to R.N. Issac's patent from 1863. And you are right about Tradition. there is a perceived view about fly rods that has developed over the last century and a half, right or wrong it is there.IMHO

alberta al · Post by **alberta al** » 07/02/18 10:36

Hey Gnome,

What is torzite?

I can remember when they first started putting single foot guides on rods, everyone had an opinion, then they casted them. Lots of guys put them on their steelheads rods, because of the improvement in shooting line.

You have me wanting to put some on a lake rod now.

Cheers,

Alan

Gnome · Post by **Gnome** » 07/02/18 13:26

Alan,

they are the next step up from the Fuji SiC guide and are much lighter and have a much lower friction coefficient than the SiC's. only drawbacks are cost and availability. bit tough to find at times

Jeff

P.S. they will make a rod perform at a different level for sure!!;-)

Franknrod · Post by **Franknrod** » 07/02/18 14:50

coachmancaster,

Frederick M. Halford, in his 1913 book, "The Dry-Fly Man's Handbook", spoke very favorably of fly rod guides made out of agate instead of snake or ring guides. The "Halford rod" (1912 model) made by Hardy used only agate guides and and an agate tip top. Halford quotes J.J Hardy as saying that "In some respects a perfect ring may be compared to the barrels of a shot gun, which are not of much value unless they shoot well." Halford and Hardy felt that fly rods with the agate guides cast better.

In other words, there is nothing new in the idea of using guides made out of stone (or ceramic)! Halford felt that the balance of a fly rod was more important than its weight. Most rod makers disagreed so agate guides were relegated to the stripping position and sometimes the tip top with snake guides used for the remainder to save weight.

The more I learn, the more I conclude that many "traditions" are either yesterday's radical ideas or historical compromises. With today's lightweight ceramics, Halford's desire for a rod that "shoots" well can be realized without adding excess weight.

coachmancaster · Post by **coachmancaster** » 07/02/18 21:26

Interesting--thanks!

Gnome · Post by **Gnome** » 07/15/18 06:10

The more I fish the rod with the Torzites the more I like them, Line gobblers they are!!! And no the rod is not a Turkey ;-)
And the Titan scrim out of an unmentionable is doing exactly what I expected it to do, Hoop strength big time!!! fixed that problem with the flat laminate build style which was having some issues that lead to failure of power fibers on the edge corners. Always onward with this natural composite called bamboo. WOOHOO!!

Kleinpm · Post by **Kleinpm** » 07/15/18 08:14

I was intrigued enough to almost order some for an 8 foot Gillum taper I am working on. The total with shipping was $140 so I backed out. I make my own guides for about 1 dollar per rod plus the stripping guide. Hopefully the price comes down!

Patrick

https://reelseatcups.com

Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk

Gnome · Post by **Gnome** » 07/15/18 08:38

every rod maker should bite the bullet 1 time and pony up and buy a set of Torzites for 1 rod that matches their favorite rod/taper built with traditional guides and compare the two side by side after making as close to matching rods with the guides being the 1 main exception. IMHO

sometimes the lowest cost is not the best and can hamper performance and durability. also MHO

oddsnrods · Post by **oddsnrods** » 07/15/18 14:44

Having read this thread with interest, I cannot imagine how to quantify performance guides on my own bamboo. Silk lines fly out slicker than plastic, treated/ clean plastic better than not, then there will be the various weights and profile of lines plus some casts will be better than others.

I can see any advantage to be eeked out of performance plastic rods, but the appeal to me of bamboo is that it is tradional, so traditional looks are important. Black foam handles and plastic Fuji style reel seats would probably work better, however I would not want them on my rods.

As far as durability goes, I have yet to wear out chrome on either fly rods or indeed spinning/ baitcasting rods, although mono would wear a groove over time on UK style rods I used while growing up there.

I have one heavy duty bamboo muskie baitcasting rod (2003) with which I cast out bucktails and smaller jerk baits using 'Spider line' .The Hopkins & Holloway chrome tip guides (with binding legs) seem impervious (so far) to the constant in and out of the lures, as are the other chrome low bridge guides.

Weight saving is always good with guides, then again any weight saved could easily be lost with a couple of coats of heavy varnish.

The cost of $184.00 CDN for guides would be excessive for me. Possibly if I was casting into the surf as the original poster does, to be honest I would probably want to use plastic there in any case.

These are personal views about my own rods and experiences. Good luck to those who like to experiment.

Malcolm

Malcolm

The Classic Fly Rod Forum