Life of varnish in tube

[Mister Bill]

My tank of Helmsman gloss varnish has set unused for a year.

Is it still good to go, or should I spring for a new can?

Should I use thinner or stir?

Bill

[RWHoffhines]

Wow, mine would've gone solid by now. (And yes, I've done the bloxygen etc.) I know some guys that leave it in there longer than that, but alas, not me. You can try.If it's bad, it just means more sanding and a trip to Lowe's for a new can.

[troutnut]

I've had it last over year using bloxygen, I was using it pretty regularly. When I moved south I had used bloxygen on a new can and only used it twice in a year and it started skiming over and got comtaminated some how. The only thing I can say is try it on a scape piece of bamboo or buy a new can and be done with it.
Fred

[Adamsdry]

Most would probably relegate it to the outdoor furniture and buy new product.
Personally, being a cheap sob, er, frugal, I would strain it into a clear plastic container, like a large Gatorade bottle, and look at it. I would check for contaminants, discoloration and separation.
Then paint a pine board with it and check the drying properties. You may have to thin it.
I've sealed Spar varnish in airtight containers for years with no noticeable detriment in application. I still use a can of Man O'War I've had for several years.
I'm not familiar with the Helmsman though.

D

[galt]

Mr. Bill,

Test the varnish. Dip a stick or a pencil. If it cures in a reasonable time, It should be fine. Thin it if you need to reduce the viscosity. Stirring is only necessary to mix in a/the reducer or to re-suspend the flattening agent in satins or semi-glosses. Glosses generally do not require stirring.

Galt

[bluesjay]

Hi Guys, There is no reason for varnish to harden in a tube.........

Jay Edwards

[RAZINGKANE]

I agree with bluesjay. Been using the same Helmsman Gloss Spar for three years in the tube. Probably dipped 15 plus rods with it. I do strain it after every three rods or so or if I see a problem. I do make sure the tube is always full to the top and take off extra with a plastic spoon if I feel overflow will occur. I keep a small jar full to replenish or take out as necessary and keep that full as well. Oxygen is the enemy here. No air...no skimming..at least in my experience. I also keep some stainless steel nuts on hand to drop in if I have to kick up the level in the tube just a bit. I use a PVC 2" tube with exterior threaded cap to eliminate as much chance as I can of crap falling in the tube and always clean the top thoroughly before capping. Oh, by the way, no thinning. I heat to 80-85 and I always seem to get a good flow with Helmsman. By the way, I think the Helmsman of today is not the same as it was 15 years ago...seems a lot thinner right out of the can. Used to thin it, but not anymore. And that's all I got to say about that.

John Niemann

[JimmyB11]

I have been haunted by varnish storage for two decades, tried many brands, tried many storage issues, talked to many folks about all of this and I have a few conclusions.

Varnishes are very different, there are so many choices and they all behave differently and some are much fussier than others.

Varnish can last many years in a tube if stored properly with no ill effects. Helmsman can last over three years easily.

Almost all varnish for rod making should be thinned as they are too thick as new, a lot of this is due to the more stringent VOC regulations. It could be as little as 10% or as high as 30%, it all depends on the brand. Follow each brands recommendation for thinning don't just dump in mineral spirits, read the paperwork or contact the maker to see what to use as thinner. Like all things in rod making, do your own tests and see what works for you. Test the varnish and thin if you think it is too thick, thinning is not bad, it can be essential. Many true Spars are very thick when new.

Helmsman Exterior Spar Gloss varnish is the most trouble free varnish for rod making. It is not the "best" varnish per se but it is the easiest, most trouble free and easiest to store and does a good job. Traditional Spar varnishes like Epifanes, Schooner, Waterlox and similar do a great job but are much slower to dry and more challenging to store but can be stored for long periods as well.

As stated above, prolonged contact with oxygen causes varnish to deteriorate. The use of Bloxygen and similar can be very effective but is not a "cure all" just another important step.

Here are some issues I wrestled with and identified as problematic.

If the varnish does not fill the tube and you have a large "gap" of air in the sealed tube this can attack the varnish and cause skinning over.

Having a poor seal on your cap that allows air to leak in or out is also a big deal, don't assume the cap is air tight.

Leaving the cap off for prolonged periods whilst dipping.

Always add some varnish back in the tube from time to time as each time you dip you are losing varnish and increasing the volume of air in the dead space.

A simple cheap turkey baster will remove varnish if the tube is stored full so fill it up when storing long term and "baste" it out.

Don't leave your unused varnish in a half empty can, the varnish will deteriorate and then you are adding "bad" varnish to the tube, if your can is half full, pour it slowly into a smaller container and seal it up.

Here are a couple of tips that have worked for me:

After a dipping session, add a few spoonfuls of thinner to the varnish, let it sit on top.

With the cap in your hand, add 5 seconds of Bloxygen or similar and quickly cover the tube with your cap

Consider sealing the cap with electrical tape and or Glad Cling wrap (the sticky one-side stuff) and then seal that with an elastic when you are finished the rod and putting the tube away for a while.

Invest in a "Stop loss bag", this is varnish store bag sold at Lee Valley Tools and similar. It is the best product for long term varnish storage in decades. It is a simple bladder that allows you to add up to a quart of varnish and then push out and air and then a very small cap seals it all up. They are inexpensive and I will never store opened varnish in a can again unless it is a very small amount.

I hope some of these insights can help you ease your varnish deterioration, it took me a while to sort it out and it was a lister that gave me some valuable advice that really helped "cement" the storage issue.

[bluesjay]

Hi Guys, To simplify, neoprene is your friend......... I do a bunch of stuff before I get started varnishing, but what I do has nothing to do with hardening varnish. Since I changed my dip tube set up more than 15 years ago I haven't changed the varnish, I only added when needed, and I have never opened the tube to find a 'skim.' I don't fill the tube to the top. In fact there is quite a space to the top of the varnish. I use a neoprene seal with a lid clamped to the top. That's it.... no skim! I have done and do quite a lot of varnishing. My last varnishing was seven made rods, and several restored rods, so more than twenty sections hanging at a time. When I did more, years ago, I'd have thirty + sections hanging. Neoprene works......

Edit: I use Pratt & Lambert 61....

Jay Edwards

[bluesjay]

Hi Guys, So, here are some photos of my 100% never, ever skim over dip tube set up. Thanks to Stoneflyer and JimmyB11 for keeping after me and helping. And thanks to me for sitting at this dumb computer and being dumb 'til I got lucky.








Jay Edwards

[mcsteff]

Helmsman Exterior Spar Gloss varnish 4 years and counting.
Use a plumber's test sealer and a teaspoon of thinner after every other dip. My last rod came out looking like the first rod I did in the tube.
(special proprietary incantations seem to help)
and I breathe on the varnish before I seal it.