Roughing Beveler

This board is for discussing the repair and restoration of bamboo fly rods, makers discussion and construction techniques relating to same. Examples would be different techniques or methods used by restorationists and makers.

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Paul B
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Re: Roughing Beveler

#21

Post by Paul B »

I am with Lee O and his approach . For years I just opened up my final forms to use as a roughing form. Today I have the luxury of having a set of roughing and a set of final forms to “speed” up the operation .
Let’s be honest here , if you are using machinery can you really say you are hand making your rods ?

3creeks
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Re: Roughing Beveler

#22

Post by 3creeks »

I guess Bob Summers, Per Brandin, and Mark Aroner, just to name a few whose rods are highly sought after, aren't hand making their rods either. Using a roughing beveler hardly disqualifies anyone from calling their rods hand made. Neither does using a finish mill. Try to use a machine on a strip of bamboo sometime, and get good results, and you will see that an awful lot of handwork is required to make it work. It's actually slower in many cases.

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Tim Anderson
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Re: Roughing Beveler

#23

Post by Tim Anderson »

Paul B wrote:Let’s be honest here, if you are using machinery can you really say you are hand making your rods ?
Well, since I don't sell my rods, it probably doesn't matter what I say about how I make them.

My hands are involved in every step of making my rods. They split the strips using tools, they push a plane around to get rid of internal node bumps, they guide the split strips into and out of my Baginski beveler, they push my MHM plane along its path .... well, you get the idea.

We don't get uptight about a cabinet maker using a power saw for his or her handmade furniture. Then again, maybe I could rig up a foot treadle system for my Baginski beveler. Ah, but that might mean foot-made rather than handmade.

Perhaps it is worth considering that the bamboo does not remember how material has been removed.

Tim

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fragmentum
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Re: Roughing Beveler

#24

Post by fragmentum »

I have completely rewritten my Baginski beveler tutorial with many more photographs and building steps. PM me for your FREE copy or send me your email address to: donsmithcanecraft@hotmail.com

Thanks all,

Don Smith


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PlaneOldMike
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Re: Roughing Beveler

#25

Post by PlaneOldMike »

fragmentum wrote:I have completely rewritten my Baginski beveler tutorial with many more photographs and building steps. PM me for your FREE copy or send me your email address to: donsmithcanecraft@hotmail.com

Thanks all,

Don Smith


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Thanks for that tutorial Don. It’s very well written and organized. I dont see myself having any problems building one if I so choose. Much appreciated!
Just a guy, trying to build a tool.

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fragmentum
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Re: Roughing Beveler

#26

Post by fragmentum »

PlaneOldMike wrote:
fragmentum wrote:I have completely rewritten my Baginski beveler tutorial with many more photographs and building steps. PM me for your FREE copy or send me your email address to: donsmithcanecraft@hotmail.com

Thanks all,

Don Smith


Image

Thanks for that tutorial Don. It’s very well written and organized. I dont see myself having any problems building one if I so choose. Much appreciated!
You are welcome!

Proofflyfishing
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Re: Roughing Beveler

#27

Post by Proofflyfishing »

I always prefer to rough plane strips by hand. I also soak my strips, which speeds up the process of roughing out the angles.
http://www.proofflyfishing.com
Tutorials, cork, reel seats, Snake Brand guides, agate guides...

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BigTJ
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Re: Roughing Beveler

#28

Post by BigTJ »

I roughed one rod by hand. That was enough for me to know I have better things to do with my time. My current set up has my only “by hand” step making 15 passes or so per strip with a MHM. Every other cut is done under power including the strips which are cut on a table and band saw. I’d forgo the MHM for a Quinchat CNC finish mill if I could justify the expense. I firmly believe that when a strip is cut with metal it makes zero difference in the finished rod if that cut was made by hand with a chisel or plane or under power with a cutter or saw. What matters is the skill and attention paid by the person applying that steel to the bamboo.

Whether to make a rod by hand or under power is a personal choice nothing wrong with either. I find it strange that some view rods made under power as inferior. The vast majority of rods made in history were made with machinery. I estimate that less than 5% of the rods in existence were made by hand. And to the OP, I love the sound of the router doing its business, magically melting the bamboo away, knowing how much work and time was saved. There is also something satisfactory getting to know how a machine works they all have their quirks and need some getting used to for maximum performance.

John

3creeks
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Re: Roughing Beveler

#29

Post by 3creeks »

I've roughed more than one rod by hand but that's only because I didn't have a machine set up for roughing yet. Once was enough for me too. I work with my hands all day on my regular job and building a rod is all hand work. If I can have a tiny respite from that and do it with a machine, then that makes it a little more enjoyable. Besides, for some, making a machine is another layer of problem solving/creativity that makes the process equally enjoyable in a different way.

I used machines to make my roughing forms- so that I could rough by hand! Forget that mess I'll just eliminate the "middle man" and machine the bamboo. Plenty of hand work precedes and follows the machine roughing stage. Before I built a rod I read about it for a decade or more and I was led to believe that those who did it by hand were superior craftsmen. Then I built a few and it's obvious to me that craftsmanship can be displayed in one's ability to manage their process to create a functional casting instrument, no matter what the details of that process are.

Cork & Cane
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Re: Roughing Beveler

#30

Post by Cork & Cane »

How you go about the blank-making process is a personal choice. I have split cane, then used roughing forms and then planed to completion on my beveling forms. This was a fairly lengthy process. These days I use a Bertram Beveller (B B), for the roughing part. Arthritis in my hands arrived a few years ago, and I expect neither it nor the B B will be leaving anytime soon.

I also have a programmable cane mill, and this finishes prepared strips in two passes. This mill allows for milling "same size" strips easily, and has the ability to hollow finished splines.

The last rods I made (4) I used the B B to prep the strips to about .025-.035" oversize taper. Then hand planed to finished size. I like hand planning, the programmable mill is quicker for making multiple similar rods. With both systems I can choose my path, but the B B is used in both to do the prep work.

Any questions about Dennis Bertram and his tools for rodmakers go to www.Quinchat.org.com or PM me.
I have most of what Dennis has made and assist him with questions and sales.

Peter

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Tim Anderson
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Re: Roughing Beveler

#31

Post by Tim Anderson »

As the original US proponent of the Baginski beveler (Rolf Baginski had already spread the word in Europe), I certainly welcome a good, new tutorial about it.

As for using machines, if you don't want to use them, fine by me. If you do use them, I think that is also completely okay. As I said above, the bamboo does not remember how material was removed.

One prominent rod maker I know has a CNC mill and uses it to do most of the shaping of his strips and for hollowing. He does the final cuts on his strips with his planing forms because he feels more confident about the results.

Tim

Canewrap
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Re: Roughing Beveler

#32

Post by Canewrap »

3creeks wrote:I've roughed more than one rod by hand but that's only because I didn't have a machine set up for roughing yet. Once was enough for me too. I work with my hands all day on my regular job and building a rod is all hand work. If I can have a tiny respite from that and do it with a machine, then that makes it a little more enjoyable. Besides, for some, making a machine is another layer of problem solving/creativity that makes the process equally enjoyable in a different way.

I used machines to make my roughing forms- so that I could rough by hand! Forget that mess I'll just eliminate the "middle man" and machine the bamboo. Plenty of hand work precedes and follows the machine roughing stage. Before I built a rod I read about it for a decade or more and I was led to believe that those who did it by hand were superior craftsmen. Then I built a few and it's obvious to me that craftsmanship can be displayed in one's ability to manage their process to create a functional casting instrument, no matter what the details of that process are.
Amen, it is the artisan and not the tools that creates a rod. I think it is just another of those "sacred cows" that got its start with advertising a lot of years ago.

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PlaneOldMike
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Re: Roughing Beveler

#33

Post by PlaneOldMike »

Cork & Cane wrote:
Any questions about Dennis Bertram and his tools for rodmakers go to http://www.Quinchat.org.com or PM me.
I have most of what Dennis has made and assist him with questions and sales.

Peter

This link does not work for me. Just takes me here...

Image

Anyone Who is looking for the info posted by Cork & Cane, I believe this is where he was trying to help you navigate to.
https://quinchat.webs.com/
Just a guy, trying to build a tool.

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RyanAK
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Re: Roughing Beveler

#34

Post by RyanAK »

Roughing is the only part of making a rod that feels like 'work' to me. I tried soaking, but I flame as heat treatment and the cane is pretty hard for roughing on the MHM or those infernal wooden roughing forms. (If anyone has any suggestions on soaking to rough on the Hand Mill, I'm all ears....)

So...

I put together a roughing mill that still needs some adjustment, and truly I enjoyed working through the process of designing and building the contraption. So I'm also slowly gathering parts and sketching out a finish mill. I'm no pro and don't build a lot of rods, but it's part of the way my mind works and how I enjoy approaching the craft...

...and the history of the craft. Almost all of the great makers we admire went through the development of the tools to make their rods. Powell's saw, Dickerson's mill, Leonard's beveller, Young's mill, Winston, Granger, Heddon, Payne, Thomas... plus countless lesser known shops. These makers all designed and set up their mills and bevellers to make fishing rods. If I do so too, I feel closer to the history of the craft.

(Yes. I'm alive. But just.)

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RyanAK
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Re: Roughing Beveler

#35

Post by RyanAK »

PS - Peter, I sent you an email to your Yahoo email addy.

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Kenneth
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Re: Roughing Beveler

#36

Post by Kenneth »

I cannot add anything useful to this thread, but I wanted to say, "Ryan! Where have you been? How're Samantha and the kid/s? Good to hear from you, man!"

Now back to the regular programming.

Keep safe,
Kenneth

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RyanAK
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Re: Roughing Beveler

#37

Post by RyanAK »

Been a rough 2.5 years. We’re bent, but not broke. Thanks for the enthusiastic welcome back!

Canewrap
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Re: Roughing Beveler

#38

Post by Canewrap »

Welcome back Ryan!

3creeks
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Re: Roughing Beveler

#39

Post by 3creeks »

Ryan I've been wondering about you. Good to see you back!

Jeff

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