Questions on Leonard restoration

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DonT
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Joined: 11/12/15 23:49

Questions on Leonard restoration

#1

Post by DonT »

Hi folks,

Well it seems like I have a lot of home time now so I started down the road to restoring an old Leonard I bought a couple years ago. It's a 20s vintage 50 1/2 DF that originally had agate tips and and agate stripper guide, all of which are gone now. It still has the original bag and tag but not the tube. The cane is still good except for short tips, more on that in a minute. Ferrules are still really good as well. Anyway I have two questions;

First does anyone know for sure whether or not they used color preservative then? The wraps were really bad as I was stripping them and there was corrosion on most of the guide feet but I started wondering about this while breaking down the rod. They looked pretty transparent although really faded. Also I looked online and saw a similar rod that looked original (from the 50s though) and I could clearly see the ferrule tabs through the wraps. If anyone has a similar rod and could take a look I'd appreciate that.

Second, I'm going to need the top two guides on each tip after I scarf them back to full length. I think they are the old English twist guides from that era. Anyone know of a source or could sell me a few? The agate tip tops are long gone and although I scrounged up a couple that might be somewhat similar a few months ago (probably from old bait rods), it's likely the rod will have steel tip tops when all is said and done.

Anway, thanks. I know the forum is a wealth of information and help. Either or both is appreciated.

Thanks,
Don
Don Titterington
Desert Canyon Rods
West Linn, OR
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tapermaker
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Re: Questions on Leonard restoration

#2

Post by tapermaker »

my mentor told me the wraps were hit with one coat of laq. as a cp . Most of the old olive and gold wraps usually bleed on most wraps. He always said to do a restoration right it , he needed to convince customers ,and so far that was rare. So he added 3 or 4 coats with toothpick application under guide feet to avoid the problem.

Dark Waters
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Re: Questions on Leonard restoration

#3

Post by Dark Waters »

Hi Don, what color are your wraps?

I have what I believe is a 50 1/2 as well. The top tiny guides on the tip are very hard to come by. Mine was missing one.

I was able to match the tone of red with thread and straight varnish. May sound crazy but true. And I have a ridiculous amount of different reds, shellack colors, and lacquer. I had luck on another Leonard with tangerine thread and lacquer, almost a dead on match.

I took some pics, of course like Dennis said, (Hi Dennis!) even on my dark red wraps you can see the ferrule tabs, etc. lighter threads would show more.

The wraps on just the females are my clumsy replacements with shown thread used and straight sutherland wells varnish. I believe all other wraps to be original due to the overall condition of the rod. It has ferrule patent stamps and “the leonard rod” stamp with no “ Reg.US.Pat.Off.” stamp on the full size slide band butt cap.


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DonT
Master Guide
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Joined: 11/12/15 23:49

Re: Questions on Leonard restoration

#4

Post by DonT »

Hi guys,

Thanks a lot. The rod actually was wrapped olive/green with red tips, I guess that has been called the Christmas rod or Christmas Tree rod. It was really hard to tell at first because the wraps were so faded but I've got the right thread colors, I'm pretty sure. Dennis, this really helps, that's what I think I was seeing. FWIW the varnish was so brittle I stripped the rod in about 15 minutes using a tri-scraper with hardly any pressure needed, it just flaked away as coarse powder. I'll try to post a few pictures along the way.
Don Titterington
Desert Canyon Rods
West Linn, OR
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Greg Reynolds
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Re: Questions on Leonard restoration

#5

Post by Greg Reynolds »

Hi Don,

Here's a link to the Vintage Fly Tackle website archives. It has excellent photos of vintage Leonard rods--many of which are in original condition. You may find them useful references for your project:

https://www.vintageflytackle.com/collec ... tems?page=

This is my mid-1920s Model 50DF. It also has 3-agates and the original snake guides. I'm certain that all the wraps are original too:

https://www.vintageflytackle.com/collec ... mboo-rod-3

Please keep us posted on progress.

Regards,
Greg

TClark5201
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Location: Idaho Falls, Id

Re: Questions on Leonard restoration

#6

Post by TClark5201 »

Hi Don,
You may have some luck for tip guides with Perfect-Europe.com. They make Agate stripping guides as well as tip tops.
I believe they also will consider custom orders for hard to find tips.
Best regards,
Tom C

eastprong
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Re: Questions on Leonard restoration

#7

Post by eastprong »

For your wraps, the thread is most likely:

Gudebrod A #358 tipped Gudebrod #326 00, all silk

I believe I got this from Chris Bogart, who would know such a thing.

--Rich

DonT
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Re: Questions on Leonard restoration

#8

Post by DonT »

Thanks guys. I will definitely follow up the the lead about the tips etc. Rich thanks for the thread tip. Russ at Golden Witch sold me the equivalents in Kimono, I believe, but I'll double check. I launched the project a while back but by luck at the almost same time I happened on an old Payne 204L that was in really bad shape and took a lot of work but that I just finished this winter, so this was next in the queue...
Don Titterington
Desert Canyon Rods
West Linn, OR
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Santafecino
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Re: Questions on Leonard restoration

#9

Post by Santafecino »

If you are looking for English guides, try Kermit at Zia Rods, my neighbor. He makes them
--Santafecino

DonT
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Re: Questions on Leonard restoration

#10

Post by DonT »

Here's a few current pics. I didn't think to take any "before' shots. The ferrules and other NS hardware were really corroded but have cleaned up nicely and the ferrules still fit well. You can see the rust stains pretty clearly, which I will clean up with oxalic acid. Whatever residual stains after that will likely be buried under the guide feet. The cork handle was really bad, hard and slick with the usual dark brown/green coating. I carefully wiped that away with alcohol but it is ridged for sure. The whole rod is shown with the tip sections I've made to scarf. Anyway, I'll post a few more as this proceeds.


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Don Titterington
Desert Canyon Rods
West Linn, OR
Repairs/Renovations
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DonT
Master Guide
Posts: 553
Joined: 11/12/15 23:49

Re: Questions on Leonard restoration

#11

Post by DonT »

Quick update. Here are some pics of threads with one coat of lacquer and two thin coats of varnish. Looks like the right effect. Rod will be done and finished except for the tip tops in another week or so. The tip scarfs went well and the bamboo color is pretty well matched. Rod is quite straight and the ferrules are still really good after removing all the corrosion. All the iron staining was minimized with oxalic acid and the residual much fainter stains are buried under the new wraps. I'm still in the process of trying to find agate tip tops that are appropriate. The ones I had scrounged up are way too bulky and clunky, so I'm going to hold out, at least for a while, before I just go to metal. I did send an email over to Perfect in Poland so we'll see how that goes.

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Don Titterington
Desert Canyon Rods
West Linn, OR
Repairs/Renovations
Custom Builds

DonT
Master Guide
Posts: 553
Joined: 11/12/15 23:49

Re: Questions on Leonard restoration

#12

Post by DonT »

Hi folks, this will be the last post on this for a while. I'll do one more when I get it finished but that's out a ways. I put on the clunky old spinning rod tip mentioned above, and decided I didn't like it but, since I had it on, I took the old girl out today and cast it. Man, it is very sweet with a modern wt forward 5 line. I'm sure it would love silk. Below is a general idea of what it currently looks like (the second tip section is not wrapped yet...) Also found out today that Ernest over in Poland is going to make me agate tips but I'll need to wait until things open up again since his normal postage service is shut down and I don't want to pay 35 Euros for Fed Ex...
All for now.
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Don Titterington
Desert Canyon Rods
West Linn, OR
Repairs/Renovations
Custom Builds

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