Drip/Drain Tubes

[3creeks]

I hope you're all staying safe and getting through this okay. I've been able to get out and plane a few rods and I'm thinking [way] ahead about finishing. I poured spar varnish on the last two rods that I made and it worked pretty good. While I'm sure that, like anything, it's an acquired skill and will get easier as I do it more, I'm looking to build a drain tube to get closer to the dipped look.

Almost every thread that I've read involving drip/drain tubes ends up with a poster saying that it's something that they used to do and have moved on to another method. I simply do not have the height to build a dipping tube operation so that is not an option for me. I'm not totally satisfied with pouring and it would seem that, in theory anyway, a drain tube would be the best of both worlds. A thinner varnish, like done when pouring, would minimize the sags at the guides I'm thinking.

I would like to get to the bottom of this and see what the challenges are with these things. Besides dealing with salvaging the varnish that drains out it would seem a simple thing to confine the sections inside of the tube after the varnish drains out, pulling them out after a day or two to hang in a dedicated drying cabinet. Dust would be almost nonexistent since the tubes are isolated. My thought was maybe using them inside of my actual drying cabinet, then pull them out and hang the sections to cure. I suppose that the valves would need to be removed for cleaning after each use, or they wouldn't last long. How many uses do you get out of one tube before they need to be replaced? I guess what I'm looking for is a comprehensive pro's and cons list so I go into this with eyes wide open.

Jeff

[Don Andersen]

Jeff,

You might want to look at the Bottle and Ballon method presented by Bob Kambietz at the Corbett meeting where a small bottle open at both ends with a rubber gasket formed from the latex of your choice held in place with an elastic band.
The gasket with a small hole punched through it, then bottle is slid to the handle, a tablespoon of varnish is added and the bottle is slid down the shaft and off at the ferrule.
The tips are treated the same way.
The guides cannot be on the rod.
I use stretch band elastic for the gasket.
I burn the hole with a needle.
I use a old film canister as a bottle.

I think Bob’s device was detailed in the Best of the Planing Form.

Regards,

Don

[dbeerbower]

I use the Tony Spezio drain tube design. The tube is a fluorescent tube plastic protector. It can be bought at Menards if you have those in CA. I use Stoploss bags to catch and store the varnish. You can get those online. Word of advice. I would not leave the sections in the tube to dry. The valve and the inside of the tubes will get covered with varnish. I put large nylon washers on the top and bottom of the sections so they dint bang in the sides when I take them out of the tube wet. After hanging the sections to dry, I put mineral spirits in the tube and rinse it thoroughly, running it out through the valve to clean it out too. It works great.

[reidrods]

Jeff,

In the mid eighties I lived in an apartment with low ceilings and used a drip tube. I had access to
copper pipe and fittings. I used 3"copper pipe with adaptors and plugs for the top and bushings and copper ball valves for the bottom. I used a plastic gas can for a varnish reservoir and connected it with clear plastic tubing and clamps. I tapped the cap on the plastic can to add a brass nipple and connect the hose on that end. I hung as many as four sections (held in place on a plastic contraption at top and bottom.) Spent a lot of time cleaning the sections and getting them dust free.
Closed the top leaving a small opening to let air escape. Raised the varnish can and opened the ball valve to fill the pipe slowly. Let sit a bit and lowered the reservoir and throttled the ball valve to drain very slowly. Heated the copper and varnish with 100 watt light bulbs in a cardboard box. Closed the ball valve,leaving varnish in the ball valve and hose. Let sections dry. Make sure you run your varnish through a good paint filter first. You can get an almost perfect finish this way. I never worried about cleaning the tube or hose. Hose was always full of varnish.
I wouldn't want to pay for this set up now in copper,but there are cheaper ways. As soon as I had an apartment with ceiling height I built a dip tube. I like the visual control and being able to knock dust motes off blank as it descends into the varnish and making sure no runs on the guides and better control on withdrawal speed. Plus a dip tube is cheaper and you can make your varnish last longer.
Sorry for the long-winded response. Blame it on coffee and being isolated. Stay safe.

Willis

[3creeks]

Jeff,

You might want to look at the Bottle and Ballon method presented by Bob Kambietz at the Corbett meeting where a small bottle open at both ends with a rubber gasket formed from the latex of your choice held in place with an elastic band.
The gasket with a small hole punched through it, then bottle is slid to the handle, a tablespoon of varnish is added and the bottle is slid down the shaft and off at the ferrule.
The tips are treated the same way.
The guides cannot be on the rod.
I use stretch band elastic for the gasket.
I burn the hole with a needle.
I use a old film canister as a bottle.

I think Bob’s device was detailed in the Best of the Planing Form.

Regards,

Don

Thank you, Don. I have read about that method before. I can't quite conceptualize how it works but I think I have an idea if you do it without the guides on. I kind of liked how my rods looked with the finish I over the guides. It was a huge upgrade in appearance from the rods before which I wiped on Tru oil.

[3creeks]

I use the Tony Spezio drain tube design. The tube is a fluorescent tube plastic protector. It can be bought at Menards if you have those in CA. I use Stoploss bags to catch and store the varnish. You can get those online. Word of advice. I would not leave the sections in the tube to dry. The valve and the inside of the tubes will get covered with varnish. I put large nylon washers on the top and bottom of the sections so they dint bang in the sides when I take them out of the tube wet. After hanging the sections to dry, I put mineral spirits in the tube and rinse it thoroughly, running it out through the valve to clean it out too. It works great.

Thank you. The one thing that I was envisioning was the problem removing the section wet and having the finish fouled by hitting the sides of the tube. The washer idea sounds great.

[3creeks]

Jeff,

In the mid eighties I lived in an apartment with low ceilings and used a drip tube. I had access to
copper pipe and fittings. I used 3"copper pipe with adaptors and plugs for the top and bushings and copper ball valves for the bottom. I used a plastic gas can for a varnish reservoir and connected it with clear plastic tubing and clamps. I tapped the cap on the plastic can to add a brass nipple and connect the hose on that end. I hung as many as four sections (held in place on a plastic contraption at top and bottom.) Spent a lot of time cleaning the sections and getting them dust free.
Closed the top leaving a small opening to let air escape. Raised the varnish can and opened the ball valve to fill the pipe slowly. Let sit a bit and lowered the reservoir and throttled the ball valve to drain very slowly. Heated the copper and varnish with 100 watt light bulbs in a cardboard box. Closed the ball valve,leaving varnish in the ball valve and hose. Let sections dry. Make sure you run your varnish through a good paint filter first. You can get an almost perfect finish this way. I never worried about cleaning the tube or hose. Hose was always full of varnish.
I wouldn't want to pay for this set up now in copper,but there are cheaper ways. As soon as I had an apartment with ceiling height I built a dip tube. I like the visual control and being able to knock dust motes off blank as it descends into the varnish and making sure no runs on the guides and better control on withdrawal speed. Plus a dip tube is cheaper and you can make your varnish last longer.
Sorry for the long-winded response. Blame it on coffee and being isolated. Stay safe.

Willis

Ha ha, we're all a little more wordy now that we have time on our hands and unable to get outside and be social. Thank you for your detailed response, Willis. That sounds like a great solution to many of the issues that I have heard about this setup. Particularly the fact that the varnish stayed in the tube perpetually. I'm afraid to ask how much it took to fill a 3" pipe! This is definitely food for thought. Except for the copper part that's expensive now.

By the way, for all of the people who have dipping mechanisms in their house I wonder. Do you have wives? I have a poster of Ben Hogan. It's an iconic picture of him in the US Open on the last hole. He autographed it to me personally. My wife won't let me hang it in the house. If I tried to dip rods in spar varnish in the house I don't even want to think about what would happen. I suspect that I'd be living in a place where I could hang my Hogan poster, though!

[GrayHackleRods]

I started out using Tony’s setup, worked well until one day as I was opening the ball valve the tube folded about 2/3 of the way down and I got about a quart of varnish on my head, since then I started using clear schedule 40 pvc. I would drain very slowly, 3 minutes per inch, never had to worry about cleaning up the finish after it dried and draining so slowly hardly saw any finish on the guides. Would also put a pop bottle cap on the female ferrule and tip-top to avoid having the sections bang the tube. I drained into a colostomy bag. Used Epifanes thinned 75/25 with Epifanes thinner.

[3creeks]

Great tips on the pop bottle caps Lee. I didn't know that clear PVC existed I'll have to look into that.

[Adamsdry]

I used a drip tube for the first six or so fly rods I made. I’v recoated numerous project rods for friends and blue collar rods picked up on the cheap.

I used a clear fluorescent tube cover with a PVC threaded adapter cemented to one end.
I then attached a ball valve to the treaded adapter using teflon tape and assorted brass fittings. I was able to remove the ball valve for periodic cleaning. I never cleaned the tubing keeping the open end covered when not in use. The assembly was attached to a board using galvanized tube straps. I then mounted the board on a large tilting easel that I own.
I could tilt the whole assembly to fill with varnish. After allowing all the bubbles in the varnish to dissipate I could tilt it again to insert the rod section.
The clear tube was marked with permanent markers at 1” intervals. I could open the ball valve slightly to drain as slow as 1” per minute.
I used dowels to plug female ferrules with smaller dowels or coat hanger wire drilled trough them at 90° to keep the rod end from touching the side of the tube. On the male slide I cut small circles of 1/4” MDF with the appropriate sized hole to insert the ferrule into. The circles had “pie” sections cut out of them to help the varnish drain past them more freely. Both of these fixtures were pressure fitted and then Scotch taped. The transition from cane to ferrule was eased by using teflon tape over the ferrule prior to the Scotch tape used to secure everything. This left very little ridging of varnish at that transition.

The only difference between this and a dip tube is the fact you will be handling your varnish and blank after each drip. I captured my varnish in a Gatorade 32 oz. bottle using a funnel with a strainer in it. I would then remove the rod section, (I put mine in another clear tube), and set it aside. I then would fill the tube using the same funnel and filter set up. One notable downside to the process is the inopportune ability to introduce contaminants into the process. You can leave your last section in the tube to dry.

I chose to use this set up because I built my first rods in a single bedroom condominium. I didn’t want to finish in a carpeted area or in the kitchen, where I glued up and straightened my blanks on a marble counter top covered with a pallet slip sheet. The hand planing took place on the balcony. Finishing took place in the linoleum floored, low ceilinged, bathroom. I could thoroughly clean it then run a hot shower to knock down whatever dust was in the air. With the door shut and the lights on the room would hold an 80°+ temperature. My curing cabinet was the closet on the patio. With blanks in florescent tubes and the high temps in the Mojave Desert a finished blank would be able to be handled in less than a week.

I never had any contamination, varnish snot, or mechanical failure with this system in 2yrs. usage. I never cleaned the tube. It darkened with usage and varnish build up but remained usable. The tube does flex when tilted so it was supported mid length by the board and tube straps. When I broke the assembly down the cemented juncture between the tubing and PVC failed. The thin walled tubing became extremely brittle. I would definitely use clear PVC, about $40 - $50 delivered for a 5ft. section on eBay.

I know it sounds like a PITA but if ceiling height is an issue this is a viable alternative. I used items that I had on hand. The tube itself probably cost $3. The biggest expense would be a ball valve. There are alternatives. The whole shebang may cost under $30. You could build a tilting stand using 2X4s’ and hinges pretty inexpensively. Just remember the weight of the varnish in the tube when tilted may shift the center of balance. Offset your base.
The results for me have been flawless, with very little prep between coatings.

I finish by hand now, but I would probably use this to color preserve, (using water based poly), and finish multiple intermediate wraps. It would always be an easy way to overcoat a rod.

Best, D

[3creeks]

D-

Thank you for that detailed explanation. It answers a lot of questions I've had.

Jeff

[CMcDowell]

I used a process like that described by Don Anderson above to varnish a 7' one-piece. I chose a film canister with a hole drilled into the bottom the size of the largest diameter of the blank, then the finger tip of a latex glove wrapped over the outside surface of the film canister, and secured with a rubber band or clear tape. Sounds nice so far, right? The latex gasket gets a pin hole to start and serves as a pathetic gasket to prevent varnish from escaping the assembly. Mount the canister/gasket assembly onto the tip of the blank, secure the very tip of the blank with a paper clamp, then hang it from a ceiling hook. There may have been a paper clip involved in this part, but I can't remember for sure. Pour some varnish into the film canister and then slowly slide the assembly down the blank at a rate of 1"-2" per minute or whatever works best for your varnish choice. It's nice to have a radio going in the background; 1"-2" a minute takes a while. Near the very end of the slide, where the blank diameter is at it's maximum, the latex-glove-finger-gasket may reveal its deficiency by tearing out, but by then it doesn't really matter, the cork and reel seat will cover the drips. One of those oft-used phrases in bamboo rod making: the cork and reel seat will cover that up.

In the end, it worked just fine and served the purpose of a one-off process to varnish a long, one-piece rod. I would do it over again, if/when; but would recommend you sort out a better quality gasket material that is more resilient than a latex glove finger. Other than that, the little container and gasket assembly works remarkably well when you don't have the necessary clearance.

By the way, as a bonus to this Rube Goldberg explanation, I've found that the heavy plastic bottles used to hold half-n-half creamer, for example, make great containers for storing excess polyurethane or varnish between uses. The lid has a little spongy seal that works great for preserving the contents and the opening is small relative to the reservoir. Then, take the metal can with the giant friction-fit lid that your varnish was originally packaged in and throw it over the fence.

[LeeO]

I used a drain tube then a medicine dropper. I’ve switched to Gorilla Glue and will likely never go back to fighting varnish.

[Don Andersen]

Good morning,

For those wishing to try the bottle method, I’d recommend heading to your nearest medical supply store and get some exercise bands in various weights.
Using a red hot needle to create the hole I found works best.
They are similar to this:

https://www.amazon.com/Professional-Res ... _s_sparkle