Anyone here built either one of these rods?
I enjoy centrepin fishing with float rods.
My main goal in pursuing rod building is to build one of each of these rods.
Then a Hardy Traveler fly rod
Looking for building insight and specs!
I have bought Rod Building for Amateurs by Richard Walker in hopes of recreating his masterpiece's.
Cheers!
Richard Walker Mark IV Carp & Avon rods
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- henkverhaar
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Re: Richard Walker Mark IV Carp & Avon rods
#2Note that the book has the numbers for the Mk IV carp (in 6 inch stations), but not (explicitly) for the Avon - you'll have to do the math - or download the PDF copy on hexrod.net - which has the numbers already penned in.
Also note that the Mk IV is rightly famous - as a carp rod to deliver delicate bait over some distance - but it's claim to fame for having captured 'Clarissa' is most likely a deception, perpetrated in the light of its commercial importance. Clarissa was most likely caught with Walker's Mk III, a much more powerful rod, and certainly more up to the task to catch specimen carp.
Also note that the Mk IV is rightly famous - as a carp rod to deliver delicate bait over some distance - but it's claim to fame for having captured 'Clarissa' is most likely a deception, perpetrated in the light of its commercial importance. Clarissa was most likely caught with Walker's Mk III, a much more powerful rod, and certainly more up to the task to catch specimen carp.
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- Sport
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Re: Richard Walker Mark IV Carp & Avon rods
#4Hi Justin, a number of years ago I made two MkIV's and one lighter version, the Mk IV Avon. I grew up in the UK and am familiar with the coarse fishing traditions there plus the writings of Walker and his pals of the 1950's: Venables, Taylor and BB.
The taper for the MkIV is most certainly in Walkers book- Rod Making for Amateurs (1953), listed as #8 - '10' rod for heavy carp, barbel, etc.' It is well known that Walker wanted a decent carp rod at a time when none were available, so he designed his own with the help of his friends The taper is referred to as being included (in his rod making book plus is described in detail) in Walker's book Still Water Angling.
The history of Walker, his catching of the 44lb record carp ' Clarissa' in 1952, plus the MkIV used has been very well documented. I suggest the 'Traditional Anglers' forum from the UK would be a good place to clarify any doubts of which of Walkers carp rods caught the record in those early days- those fellows chew over the subject constantly.
In 1980 Chris Yates went on to catch the next record carp from the same small pool (Redmire) which weighed 50lbs, on the lighter MkIV Avon, which Walker himself also had made. The full account by Yates of the capture was featured (along with a photo of the carp and rod) in Angling magazine, September 1980, of which I still have a copy.
The Mk 4 is quite a 'big' rod to make due to its larger lower section. Walkers original taper had a couple of feet of wooden dowel under the handle as he wanted it stiff in that section, then drilled a hole in the end, into which he glued the bamboo blank. I had the feeling that the lengths of bamboo culms available were shorter at the time, which may have explained this. In any case for mine I continued the taper into and through the handle. Were I to make another I would do this again, however I would add some long planed extra strips of bamboo bound to the outside of the blank under the handle to in effect, double build it there as I now do with all of my longer rods.
I used my regular forms to plane the sections. I marked up 6" stations using felt tipped pen, instead of the usual 5, just measuring at different points.It should be remembered that Walker himself did not use adjustable forms for his early, or possibly any, rods; instead gluing the bamboo strips to wooden 'formers' for planing, which probably gave a certain 'latitude' with the numbers..
The Mk IV is quite a 'beefy' rod with a fine tip, to cast those light baits and play heavy fish. I would not think it well suited to centre-pin style float fishing per se. I do not know where you are located or for which species you may be fishing for, but I would consider the Avon version more pleasant for general use although a little short at 10', I would be tempted to stretch it by adding a foot or so.
Finding the traditional fittings for the MkIV may be a challenge- the sliding rings, large agate lined lower ring, plus agate tip ring etc. I was fortunate to have a collection of parts. Hopkins & Holloway (UK) still make some very nice suitable chrome (unlined) tip rings with binding legs, plus bridge rings for the rest of the rod, Perfection(US) also make chrome spinning style bridge guides which have a slightly higher in profile and are a little heavier in the wire. The original handle was some 26" long which uses up a decent amount of cork, although it could be shortened. The ferrule will be tricky to find, Chapmans (UK) used to supply them, but I think they are not trading these days, finding the right size from a 'junker' salmon or coarse rod would do. I may have one when the time comes.
In any case, don't be daunted, the Mk Iv is quite a straightforward rod to make and an enjoyable one to use, however there is no need (in my opinion) to 'double build' as your photos show, if suitable bamboo is used. My only comment would be not try to cast baits which are too heavy. The taper is in four sections- stiff under the handle, steep taper just above, moderate middle section and steep again for the top few feet. It is where the steeper taper of the tip meets the more moderate taper below where 'casting sets' could set in, were the baits to be too heavy. Walker himself writes that the maximum weight the MkIV should cast would be around 1 1/2 oz.
One final note, simply deduct 10% from the MkIV taper to make the Avon MkIV.- that took a little research I remember at the time, but this was confirmed by a UK rod maker of my acquaintance.
Regards,
Malcolm
Photo shows the MkIV Avon, which I made for a friend of mine, being put to work..Plus the proud new owner of one of my MkIV's with a large barbel, in this instance used with a centre-pin reel.
The taper for the MkIV is most certainly in Walkers book- Rod Making for Amateurs (1953), listed as #8 - '10' rod for heavy carp, barbel, etc.' It is well known that Walker wanted a decent carp rod at a time when none were available, so he designed his own with the help of his friends The taper is referred to as being included (in his rod making book plus is described in detail) in Walker's book Still Water Angling.
The history of Walker, his catching of the 44lb record carp ' Clarissa' in 1952, plus the MkIV used has been very well documented. I suggest the 'Traditional Anglers' forum from the UK would be a good place to clarify any doubts of which of Walkers carp rods caught the record in those early days- those fellows chew over the subject constantly.
In 1980 Chris Yates went on to catch the next record carp from the same small pool (Redmire) which weighed 50lbs, on the lighter MkIV Avon, which Walker himself also had made. The full account by Yates of the capture was featured (along with a photo of the carp and rod) in Angling magazine, September 1980, of which I still have a copy.
The Mk 4 is quite a 'big' rod to make due to its larger lower section. Walkers original taper had a couple of feet of wooden dowel under the handle as he wanted it stiff in that section, then drilled a hole in the end, into which he glued the bamboo blank. I had the feeling that the lengths of bamboo culms available were shorter at the time, which may have explained this. In any case for mine I continued the taper into and through the handle. Were I to make another I would do this again, however I would add some long planed extra strips of bamboo bound to the outside of the blank under the handle to in effect, double build it there as I now do with all of my longer rods.
I used my regular forms to plane the sections. I marked up 6" stations using felt tipped pen, instead of the usual 5, just measuring at different points.It should be remembered that Walker himself did not use adjustable forms for his early, or possibly any, rods; instead gluing the bamboo strips to wooden 'formers' for planing, which probably gave a certain 'latitude' with the numbers..
The Mk IV is quite a 'beefy' rod with a fine tip, to cast those light baits and play heavy fish. I would not think it well suited to centre-pin style float fishing per se. I do not know where you are located or for which species you may be fishing for, but I would consider the Avon version more pleasant for general use although a little short at 10', I would be tempted to stretch it by adding a foot or so.
Finding the traditional fittings for the MkIV may be a challenge- the sliding rings, large agate lined lower ring, plus agate tip ring etc. I was fortunate to have a collection of parts. Hopkins & Holloway (UK) still make some very nice suitable chrome (unlined) tip rings with binding legs, plus bridge rings for the rest of the rod, Perfection(US) also make chrome spinning style bridge guides which have a slightly higher in profile and are a little heavier in the wire. The original handle was some 26" long which uses up a decent amount of cork, although it could be shortened. The ferrule will be tricky to find, Chapmans (UK) used to supply them, but I think they are not trading these days, finding the right size from a 'junker' salmon or coarse rod would do. I may have one when the time comes.
In any case, don't be daunted, the Mk Iv is quite a straightforward rod to make and an enjoyable one to use, however there is no need (in my opinion) to 'double build' as your photos show, if suitable bamboo is used. My only comment would be not try to cast baits which are too heavy. The taper is in four sections- stiff under the handle, steep taper just above, moderate middle section and steep again for the top few feet. It is where the steeper taper of the tip meets the more moderate taper below where 'casting sets' could set in, were the baits to be too heavy. Walker himself writes that the maximum weight the MkIV should cast would be around 1 1/2 oz.
One final note, simply deduct 10% from the MkIV taper to make the Avon MkIV.- that took a little research I remember at the time, but this was confirmed by a UK rod maker of my acquaintance.
Regards,
Malcolm
Photo shows the MkIV Avon, which I made for a friend of mine, being put to work..Plus the proud new owner of one of my MkIV's with a large barbel, in this instance used with a centre-pin reel.
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- Sport
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- Joined: 09/17/20 18:52
Re: Richard Walker Mark IV Carp & Avon rods
#5Malcolm, thank you for your response. It is greatly appreciated.oddsnrods wrote: ↑09/19/20 05:56Hi Justin, a number of years ago I made two MkIV's and one lighter version, the Mk IV Avon. I grew up in the UK and am familiar with the coarse fishing traditions there plus the writings of Walker and his pals of the 1950's: Venables, Taylor and BB.
The taper for the MkIV is most certainly in Walkers book- Rod Making for Amateurs (1953), listed as #8 - '10' rod for heavy carp, barbel, etc.' It is well known that Walker wanted a decent carp rod at a time when none were available, so he designed his own with the help of his friends The taper is referred to as being included (in his rod making book plus is described in detail) in Walker's book Still Water Angling.
The history of Walker, his catching of the 44lb record carp ' Clarissa' in 1952, plus the MkIV used has been very well documented. I suggest the 'Traditional Anglers' forum from the UK would be a good place to clarify any doubts of which of Walkers carp rods caught the record in those early days- those fellows chew over the subject constantly.
In 1980 Chris Yates went on to catch the next record carp from the same small pool (Redmire) which weighed 50lbs, on the lighter MkIV Avon, which Walker himself also had made. The full account by Yates of the capture was featured (along with a photo of the carp and rod) in Angling magazine, September 1980, of which I still have a copy.
The Mk 4 is quite a 'big' rod to make due to its larger lower section. Walkers original taper had a couple of feet of wooden dowel under the handle as he wanted it stiff in that section, then drilled a hole in the end, into which he glued the bamboo blank. I had the feeling that the lengths of bamboo culms available were shorter at the time, which may have explained this. In any case for mine I continued the taper into and through the handle. Were I to make another I would do this again, however I would add some long planed extra strips of bamboo bound to the outside of the blank under the handle to in effect, double build it there as I now do with all of my longer rods.
I used my regular forms to plane the sections. I marked up 6" stations using felt tipped pen, instead of the usual 5, just measuring at different points.It should be remembered that Walker himself did not use adjustable forms for his early, or possibly any, rods; instead gluing the bamboo strips to wooden 'formers' for planing, which probably gave a certain 'latitude' with the numbers..
The Mk IV is quite a 'beefy' rod with a fine tip, to cast those light baits and play heavy fish. I would not think it well suited to centre-pin style float fishing per se. I do not know where you are located or for which species you may be fishing for, but I would consider the Avon version more pleasant for general use although a little short at 10', I would be tempted to stretch it by adding a foot or so.
Finding the traditional fittings for the MkIV may be a challenge- the sliding rings, large agate lined lower ring, plus agate tip ring etc. I was fortunate to have a collection of parts. Hopkins & Holloway (UK) still make some very nice suitable chrome (unlined) tip rings with binding legs, plus bridge rings for the rest of the rod, Perfection(US) also make chrome spinning style bridge guides which have a slightly higher in profile and are a little heavier in the wire. The original handle was some 26" long which uses up a decent amount of cork, although it could be shortened. The ferrule will be tricky to find, Chapmans (UK) used to supply them, but I think they are not trading these days, finding the right size from a 'junker' salmon or coarse rod would do. I may have one when the time comes.
In any case, don't be daunted, the Mk Iv is quite a straightforward rod to make and an enjoyable one to use, however there is no need (in my opinion) to 'double build' as your photos show, if suitable bamboo is used. My only comment would be not try to cast baits which are too heavy. The taper is in four sections- stiff under the handle, steep taper just above, moderate middle section and steep again for the top few feet. It is where the steeper taper of the tip meets the more moderate taper below where 'casting sets' could set in, were the baits to be too heavy. Walker himself writes that the maximum weight the MkIV should cast would be around 1 1/2 oz.
One final note, simply deduct 10% from the MkIV taper to make the Avon MkIV.- that took a little research I remember at the time, but this was confirmed by a UK rod maker of my acquaintance.
Regards,
Malcolm
Photo shows the MkIV Avon, which I made for a friend of mine, being put to work..Plus the proud new owner of one of my MkIV's with a large barbel, in this instance used with a centre-pin reel.
In the beginning of COV-19 I learned of Chris Yates. I have since bought his books. Casting at the sun is probably my favorite book I have ever read.
Upon more research I learned of him catching the record breaker on a Mark IV.
I finally saved up enough funds and purchased a Mark IV Carp rod - only to have it damaged during shipping... I was and still am heart broken.
That alone sparked an interest to become a rod builder simply to make my own.
The Mark IV I own is the 1958 version. Donut handle that shows " B James & Son England ". I'd like to repair it one day. The butt section bent, so there might be some fractures to the cane but I'll try resetting with heat first.
I have read articles in "Traditional Anglers", and in "Anglersnet", trying to get info on these rods.
I have purchased RW' s book and should be here soon...
Rod building is a bit daunting. But I know with time I'll be able to build the rod. Seeing as Edward Barder and Paul Cook sell their versions of the Mark IV for incredible prices, I know my own will mean a fortune to me.
I fish in the Southern States of the US. I've caught 30lb+ grass carp off my centrepin and large catfish. I'd like to have a cane rod to accompany my reel.
Thanks again for the input.
P.S. I'm on Chris Lythe's waiting list for a 1915 Avon to be built for me. BEYOND ecstatic about that!
Cheers!
Re: Richard Walker Mark IV Carp & Avon rods
#6Amazing to see someone in the US catching up with the incredible Coarse fishing tradition in the UK.
Been there, done that so to say (even though I am from Germany :-)) and indeed its very enjoyable to catch coarse fish with vintage tackle!
Mind you its great to fish and/or build the most well known examples from the books. But I can assure you you can buy some superb rods by Allcocks, Aspindale especially for very little money!
Chris Lythe of course is right on top of the must-have list. But better save your pennies for the 1915 Avon ;-)!!
Have fun!
Been there, done that so to say (even though I am from Germany :-)) and indeed its very enjoyable to catch coarse fish with vintage tackle!
Mind you its great to fish and/or build the most well known examples from the books. But I can assure you you can buy some superb rods by Allcocks, Aspindale especially for very little money!
Chris Lythe of course is right on top of the must-have list. But better save your pennies for the 1915 Avon ;-)!!
Have fun!
Re: Richard Walker Mark IV Carp & Avon rods
#7terrific thread, thanks all.. grew up in S. Africa which inherited many of the UK traditions, still like to fish for carp though mostly on the fly these days.
I have a JW Young Ambidex spinning reel that calls out for a cane rod, there's nothing much in the US markets for carp cane rods. I've eyed the Allcocks etc rods on UK ebay, but the shipping costs are a thing.
I have a JW Young Ambidex spinning reel that calls out for a cane rod, there's nothing much in the US markets for carp cane rods. I've eyed the Allcocks etc rods on UK ebay, but the shipping costs are a thing.