rough planer suggestions

[sanderson]

I'm on 4th rod, enjoying everything but roughing 60's. Seems about 1/2 my strips end up with bad angles, and they almost always, are on opposite sides of the enamel(from each other). What causes this? And, should I bite the bullet and just go with a power beveler? I'm able to get solid triangles through secondary and final planing, but think this is because of luck. I'd really appreciate some suggestions.

[bluesjay]

Hi Guys, I have found if one side is bad the other side will be. You need to get one side to be a good 60 degrees, then proceed. Anything less makes it impossible.


Edit: Just to be clear, I use a mill with 60 degree mill cutters to get my 60. I try really hard to not lose it, by keeping my spline deep into the form.

Jay Edwards

[Livingstone]

Hi,I have a shoulder with a metal plate so a rough beveler makes sense. I use the Quinchat beveler, way more positives than negatives.Livingstone.

[jim royston]

I agree with Jay. If you rough plane, you need to get a 60 degree bevel on one surface first.

[perfesser]

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[Mike McGuire]

Here is the link to my Baginski article--http://mmcgr.users.sonic.net/Beveler/Ba ... veler.html

Mike

[henkverhaar]

(on baginski style beveler) and wear gloves pulling the strips through.

Really? In my experience there are many more 'risky' steps in preparing tapered strips than bevelling - as far as cuts and splinters are concerned. These days, I only wear (heavy) gloves when removing (hacking) diaphragms from individual strips (I split first, with diaphragms/dams in place, then remove them from individual strips; its just what works for me). I think kickback from a beveler is a more serious risk than cuts and splinters - the splinters from feeding a strip through are usually easily found and removed ;-) I prefer feeling the behaviour of the strip over wearing gloves...

[perfesser]

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[Tim Anderson]

For almost all of my cane work including pulling strips through my Baginski beveler, I wear these gloves: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012 ... UTF8&psc=1. They are thin, allow a great deal of feel, and the inner surface is very tough. Why do I wear gloves? I bleed like the proverbial stuck pig and don't need blood stains on my bamboo.

As many know, I am a great fan of the Baginski beveler. My first version years ago had anti-kickback provisions. I soon removed those and have nothing similar in the version I now use. For safety reasons, I stand in front of the machine while using it, but must say that there is very little kickback effect during use.

Tim

[joehudock]

Hi Guys, I have found if one side is bad the other side will be. You need to get one side to be a good 60 degrees, then proceed. Anything less makes it impossible.

Jay Edwards

Before getting that first good 60 degree angle in the roughing form I square up the opposite side that goes down into the roughing form if that split side is not close to square to the enamel side. Lots of folks do just fine starting the split strip in the intermediate form and some just use the final form for roughing through final planing. That's not me. I really do best using the roughing form to get that first angle and need the better strip support from the deep groove in the intermediate form to get good 60s on the rough planed strips.

[henkverhaar]

i run my strips in against the wheel (climb cut) so i have to pull them through.

I also run then against the wheel rotation, anvil below the wheel (so from behind the grinder if you convert a bench grinder to a beveler), but I push the strips through almost all the way. I only pull the final 6 inches of so, when the 'butt end' of the strip is within the beveler's enclosure in its entirety.

[tapermaker]

I have used a handplaners friend from bellingers for 20 yrs.never had trouble getting a 60 degree angle.

[BigTJ]

With respect to others that have had different experiences than me, I have not found I need a good sixty on one side, either while hand planing or roughing. With the right setup and lighter cuts the strips “find their way”. These days I cut my strips on a band saw and do very little straightening and they go right into my Quinchat multi track with only the nodal humps sanded off. But in the old days when roughing by hand I ended up ditching those preliminary forms and just used my regular forms to rough.

Getting bad angles could come from a few things but the most likely is how you are holding the plane compared to the form. Get a mirror put it at the end of your forms and watch to ensure the sole of the plane is perpendicular to the surface of your forms. The best analogy to me is the feeling like you are ice skating only with your hand. There is a definite feel to it, balanced and trusting but at the same time firm. You can’t just go at it you have to be conscious of what you are doing at all times. Take lighter cuts, 3 or 4 thou, flipping frequently. until your angles start to come together. You are also better off to start with strips that are squared up and pretty well prepped. Off angled or wonky strips are a crapshoot - not impossible but not easy either.

Last thing - a beveller makes a lot of sense it’s easier on your shoulder and tendons and saves time. But it has a learning curve and strip prep needs to be right for the machine you are using all have slightly different requirements. It is possible to destroy strips at a staggering rate under power so plan on spending time getting to know your machine and ruin some strips in the process should you decide to go that route. I have figured out how to minimize strip prep with my machine however as a general rule I’d say strip prep is even more critical under power that it is planing by hand. You can’t go wrong with well prepped strips.

John

[Gnome]

+1000 for TJ's comments above!!

[LeeO]

I use my final forms to rough strips. During my speed rod build experiment I found that strip prep greatly impacted angles. Particularly with sweeps and bends at nodes. I now will spend even more time straightening strips. Of course, this will not be everyone’s experience and the best method is to simply plane more strips

[sanderson]

thanks for the insight. I'm probably going a little fast on the strip prep, the strips have been coming out pretty solid by the time I've finished secondary planing, but I have to do a lot more adjusting throughout the process. still, feel I may go the route of a JW beveler, though researching others.

[JimmyB11]

Having run an incredible amount of strips for myself, others and demos and tests, as in thousands, I have never had a strip "kick back" at me, my machine is extremely safe. The same goes for "mangling strips or destroying strips", it is not an issue. A well made, properly adjusted machine is a joy to use and saves so much time and renders a properly shaped strip for hand planing. I could not imagine my rod making without it. As for strip preparation, the more you do, the better the rod becomes, it is not glamorous but spending the time saves headaches and heartache down the line whether you use a beveller or not. It is just good practice.I use a Bellinger Little Giant rougher, this is a third generation machine, I had the second gen with a "full size motor" which was a little frustrating but the current router based machine is amazing.

[Godfroy]

I use my Proxxon DH40 planer/thicknesser with a variety of home made wooden forms and aluminium carriers for squaring edges and bevelling. It is a small machine with a maximum depth of cut of 0.8mm but it is accurate and only takes a few passes for me to convert a rectangular strip into a triangle.

The form passes through the machine with the strip (the strip does not slide in the V of the form as with some bevellers). There is a roller inside the machine which presses the strip down into the groove in the form and depth adjustment is very precise so it is possible to shave very close to the top of the form.

I am still experimenting with it and have a plan to make wooden forms with tapered 60 deg grooves so that I can produce tapered rough strips.

The blades are lasting well but it takes standard 82 mm planer blades which are widely available and cheap, which is one of the reasons I bought this machine.

[trland]

This is what we use for rough tapering: https://youtu.be/GW-VmBdwYxM

[3creeks]

thanks for the insight. I'm probably going a little fast on the strip prep, the strips have been coming out pretty solid by the time I've finished secondary planing, but I have to do a lot more adjusting throughout the process. still, feel I may go the route of a JW beveler, though researching others.

JW is a great guy and you can't go wrong. I happen to have the Quinchat multi track beveler and it adds the feature of being able to do tapers in addition to the other strip prep. Being able to put a taper on a strip quickly that started out with good 60's is a really great benefit and saves even more time while hand planing the final taper. The tapering fixture is so simple to use. It's just a long wooden form with a taper milled into it, one wider side for butts and a narrow one for tips (that I haven't had the nerve to use yet because it's really small), and you pass the fixture under the router cutter of the mill.

Like BigTJ I now use a bandsaw to cut my strips and I then run them through the multi track to square them up and put a dip on the pith side of the nodes for better pressing. After pressing nodes I run the strips through my homemade roughing mill because I can do single pass roughing but everything else is done on the Bertram machine. Getting strips ready to final plane has become a very quick process rather than several days and it is really nice.

Jeff