glue/epoxy

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saddlemaker
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glue/epoxy

#1

Post by saddlemaker »

I have a question about glues or epoxies for glueing up blanks. In my vast experience (I have only made one rod) I used Elmer's Ultimate/pro bond. I was recommended to use that glue from an excellent rodmaker. Now I am just about ready to glue up my second rod and it seems, at least in canada they have discontinued Elmer's ultimate. I have only found one source that sells it but I wonder if it may be old inventory. Can you recommend replacement for the Elmer's? Or another type of glue or epoxy that I should try. Thanks

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eotr
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Re: glue/epoxy

#2

Post by eotr »

Try UniBond 800 from Nelson Paint. I order it from the Nelson Paint store is Sault St. Marie - sorry don't have the number handy. You can store the glue in a fridge for up to 3 years before it becomes unusable. Order it without the hardener because the hardener contains powdered walnut shells and unless you sift it carefully you may get glue lines. Use Ammonium Chloride crystals at a ratio of 50 grams glue to 10 grains Ammonium Chloride. Stir well with a little spritz of water. I find that about 50 grams of glue will do a two tip rod with some left. I just finished rod #90 and have not had any delaminations or rod failures. I have lots of Ammonium Chloride that I'll donate to your venture - just shoot me a PM if you decide to go that way.
Brent

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oddsnrods
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Re: glue/epoxy

#3

Post by oddsnrods »

I use Uni Bond as a replacement for the now discontinued Urac, Uni Bond works just as well. I grind the powder which comes with it and haven't hadany issues with glue lines.

I am in Toronto and ordered the glue from Nelson Paints in Salt St Marie. Last time order a few years ago, quart of Uni Bond was $36 including postage. Last year the price had jumped as it is now 'hazardous goods' to $100. So these days I try to make more than one blank at a time..

Malcolm

Tommasini
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Re: glue/epoxy

#4

Post by Tommasini »

I too use Uni Bond 800. I also grind the powder with a Mortar & Pestle but to be truth-full, never had a glue line when I didn't . I buy it on line from vacupress.com , $24.76 per 1/2 gallon plus $11 and change FedEx shipping to NJ. I only really need 1 qt. at a time, but it's only available from them in 1/2 gal size so would love to find someone to split it with.

galt
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Re: glue/epoxy

#5

Post by galt »

Do you want to use an adhesive that is readily available at your local supplier? or do you wish to order a product from an outside supplier? Any wood working type adhesive is suitable for bonding cane although they have a vast array of working and performance properties. This forum contains an archive of 'best' adhesive discussion. Selecting a suitable adhesive for one's purpose is easier if one can identify the properties sought rather than rely on the recommendation of another. Working/performance properties are objective while recommendations are subjective.

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DonT
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Re: glue/epoxy

#6

Post by DonT »

Many of us use UHU Endfest Plus 300 epoxy. There is a lot of information about it here on the forum. However, you need to order it, it's not likely to be locally available.
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PlaneOldMike
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Re: glue/epoxy

#7

Post by PlaneOldMike »

Many seems to like Titebond. Not sure if it’s I, II or. III though. I’m sure that can be found at your local hardware store.
Just a guy, trying to build a tool.

bluesjay
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Re: glue/epoxy

#8

Post by bluesjay »

Hi Guys, I used Urac mostly for years, occasionally Resorcinol. I was suspicious of Titebond III, but I think I've glued up seven hollow rods, scallop and dam, so far so good. I sold several, and they must be OK. I fished my first one all year and caught big fish and tried to abuse it somewhat. My brother has it, and I'm making four, of which I'll keep one. It's easy to use. I worried 'bout the heat thing, and scorched the one I'm keeping, so it's good stuff. I thin it with water.

Jay Edwards
Last edited by bluesjay on 02/02/21 16:10, edited 1 time in total.

samsonboi
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Re: glue/epoxy

#9

Post by samsonboi »

The Titebond glue mentioned is III, which has the best properties for rods of the Titebond series glues. 1 is interior glue, II is water-resistant, and III is waterproof. It can be cleaned up with water or vinegar very easily when wet; when dry steam or a heat gun will loosen the joint.
"Car ce n'est pas assez d'avoir l'esprit bon, mais le principal est de l'appliquer bien.”- Descartes

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Gnome
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Re: glue/epoxy

#10

Post by Gnome »

as a caveat Mike Clark has used TBII for in excess of 3 decades or more, a pretty strong testament to that glues ability. I have used TBIII for a couple of decades along with the resorcinol. both good choices in my book.

samsonboi
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Re: glue/epoxy

#11

Post by samsonboi »

Yep, I've heard TB II works fine. I read that Tony Spezio and others use(d) it for nodeless splices while gluing up the rest of the rod with epoxy. I figure as long as the rod isn't left wet for long periods of time the glue should have no reason to fail.
"Car ce n'est pas assez d'avoir l'esprit bon, mais le principal est de l'appliquer bien.”- Descartes

Tommasini
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Re: glue/epoxy

#12

Post by Tommasini »

I've used Titebond II and III for several rods. Never had a problem with delams but did have problems with heat straightening . The glue let loose once heated but reset once it cooled with no apparent loss of strength. That said, I went back to URAC and now Unibond 800 which has great heat tolerance.

dorenac
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Re: glue/epoxy

#13

Post by dorenac »

In the epoxy family you might consider The West System, too. Very easy to measure out with dispenser pumps. Years back I started splices with Titebond and then Epon for final glue up. Once I moved on to West I use it from start to finish.

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saddlemaker
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Re: glue/epoxy

#14

Post by saddlemaker »

I got some of the west systems epoxy and will give that a try.
Thanks for your help.

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OldCane
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Re: glue/epoxy

#15

Post by OldCane »

I've used TB II for scarf repairs on broken tips and have not had joint failures.
I don't have a PhD, but I do have a DD214.

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kermit
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Re: glue/epoxy

#16

Post by kermit »

I used Titebond III for years without any problem and it worked very good. I also used URAC, and now use Unibond 800. I like the open time better than Titebond III. I use the powder that comes with Unibond 800, without any issues. If I got in a pinch because of availability or shipping problems, I would switch back to Titebond III. TBIII is available at most any hardware store in the USA
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BigTJ
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Re: glue/epoxy

#17

Post by BigTJ »

Endfest uhu 300 is now available on Amazon with free shipping to prime members. It is incredibly strong with a long open time. I’ve built a rod with pro bond it was fine the Endfest epoxy is quite a bit better.

I built a rod with titebond 3 and it took a set so I don’t have confidence in it.

John

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cdmoore
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Re: glue/epoxy

#18

Post by cdmoore »

There are many excellent rodmaking glues available these days, most of them mentioned above. After messing with many of them, my conclusion is that there is no obviously "best" one that clearly outdoes all the others in every area of application and service across most given processes. Further, if you read between the lines of most posts on the subject over the years, you will understand that most rodmakers choose a glue that excels in particular areas that suit THAT rodmaker; "best", like beauty, is at least somewhat relative. So, think very clearly about your process, skill set, habits, aesthetic sensibilities, customer requirements, environmental conditions of your shop and climate, plus any health concerns you may have for yourself and those around you, and I think one or two options will rise to the surface. Just pick the winners and learn how to use them to best effect within your process, stop worrying about the other adhesives you are not choosing. Once your process is stable and your knowledge deeper, you can reassess.

Hate maroon / purple lines? Resorcinol is out.

Need a really long open time? Maybe try Epon.

Not so precise in your planing but the blanks are still sound? A gap filler might help with that (though it's a great glue for people with really good planing, too!)

Known to eat glue every once in awhile? Stay away from epoxy and formaldehydes.

My .02

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BigTJ
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Re: glue/epoxy

#19

Post by BigTJ »

I was in a hardware store and saw this stuff I think it was called Elmers glue-all Max it looks a lot like the pro bond stuff

John

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