My invisible wrap isn't

[greyreefer5]

A 1/2 repair wrap. White Kimono Silk from Proof Fly fishing, General Finishes oil base varnish thinned 50% with pure mineral spirits. Drys white. Advice ?

[Canewrap]

I only have experience with using flexcoat light epoxy for clear wraps. I use a natural silk that is more of an off-white, just about tan. I mix the epoxy and some denatured alcohol in a 1:1:1 mix.

[BigTJ]

Agree with post #2. Use a rod epoxy finish for the first coat thin it 30% with acetone and the wipe off all excess. Once it dries overcoat with 2-3 light coats of varnish. The best color for repair wraps is more of what one would call natural white that is an ultra light tan color, not stark white which has a hint of blue. YLI 16 in 50 wt for butt and mid sections and 213 in 100 for finer tips is ideal.

[chuhcee]

I just did a test wrap for a rod I’m completing.
Kimono #374 (size100) from Proof
Man O War varnish thinned with artists grade turpentine 5/2
Crystal clear (zoom in on upper butt section)

[Peales]

I’m going to guess that 50% mineral spirits is to thin of a mixture. Once your mixture is applied and the solvents begin to disperse, air is pulled into the wraps. There probably isn’t enough residual resin/solids to saturate the thread. The problem is worsened if the drying happens rapidly. Lots of posts over the years regarding ‘shimmers’ in transparent wraps. I think you are seeing a really bad case of shimmering. In addition to developing a ‘best’ ratio of solids to volatiles, there are techniques of application that allow for better results as well.

Thinned epoxy, as described above is less troublesome and easier to manage.

[greyreefer5]

I'm using the same silk from Proof, must be the varnish?
.

[BigTJ]

Yes it’s the varnish. Epoxy is easy to use flexible strong and you will never get shimmers.

[fragmentum]

YLI 212 Natural White in 100wt is the best for totally clear wraps. It is unbleached and will not give you translucent or shimmers when done correctly. As with any clear of translucent wraps, don't wrap so tight that the silk can't absorb your liquid finish. I use Flex Coat Lite and mix 1/3rd each of the resin and hardener and the last 1/3rd with denatured alcohol. You don't want it to dry too quickly so you can cover all your wraps in the first coat. Apply from the tip of the guide first to push the air out through the 'tent' made by the wrap. Wipe off excess with another brush to keep any lint off the wrap. Inspect for any trapped bubbles and extract by sucking out with the tube from a spray can that has not been used or use a needle to pop and force your mixture in place of the bubble. Test on a test wrap before committing to your rod! Practice helps!
After one hour, if you still have some Flex Coat Lite mixture left over, add more DNA and add additional coat to wraps for weave fill. Not necessary to wipe this off AND you can even dilute your mix AGAIN for a third coat.
You can then overcoat your wraps with varnish, urethane or whatever before gleeming smooth, then a diluted 'wash' to make them shine!

[henkverhaar]

I also used YLI undyed silk - and finished with epifanes thinned at least 50% with stoddard solvent / coleman fuel / light naphtha - any low boiling point/high volatility mineral spirit. This will give you an invisible wrap. Note: DONT burnish a wrap that needs to become invisible.

Since I'm not satisfied with the strength of silk (I only make invisible wraps on the female end of a bamboo ferrule, as a 'scrim' to provide hoop strength) I switched to undyed polyester (Guetermann skala 240). Strength is much better, but polyester doesn't become nearly as transparent as silk...

[fragmentum]

I also used YLI undyed silk - and finished with epifanes thinned at least 50% with stoddard solvent / coleman fuel / light naphtha - any low boiling point/high volatility mineral spirit. This will give you an invisible wrap. Note: DONT burnish a wrap that needs to become invisible.

Since I'm not satisfied with the strength of silk (I only make invisible wraps on the female end of a bamboo ferrule, as a 'scrim' to provide hoop strength) I switched to undyed polyester (Guetermann skala 240). Strength is much better, but polyester doesn't become nearly as transparent as silk...

Henk, I've NEVER had a silk wrap failure... ever! The tip top does 90% of the work on my small fish, anyway!

Don

[bluesjay]

Hi Guys, I use the Walnut oil treatment. I just like the idea of 'Walnut Oil', and it works without too much trouble. The thread does need to be the natural white.

viewtopic.php?f=66&t=84541&p=665901&hil ... ps#p665901

Jay Edwards

[henkverhaar]

Henk, I've NEVER had a silk wrap failure... ever! The tip top does 90% of the work on my small fish, anyway!

To elaborate: I haven't had an actual wrap fail - I _have_ had instances where there was, apparently, enough 'give' in the scrim wrap that the glue lines of the female ferrule started showing some failure/delamination, from butt end a few mm up. From that time I started putting short butt wraps in nylon over the ferrule scrim wrap (about 5 mm). And lately, for this reason as well as being not entirely happy with some other aspects of silk wraps, I've started using polyester thread. As far as I can see the only downside to that is, as said, that they turn out not as invisible as silk...

[Titelines]

If the joint is failing, I'd not blame it on the wrap. I'd blame it on the joint either being starved of the adhesive, not prepped correctly before the adhesive is applied or just plain old adhesive failure. Nodeless rods and regular rods don't have invisible wraps over the blank and don't very often delaminate with modern adhesives unless the adhesive failed, which could happen for any number of reasons. A wrap may help hold it together for a while, but if the adhesive/joint has failed, no wrap is going to hold that section together, silk or otherwise.

Mark

[Tim Anderson]

I think henkverhaar's situation is a little different than with normal ferrules. Unless I am mistaken, he is talking about bamboo ferrules, which do have some unusual needs for strong wraps. My carbon-fiber tube-spigot ferrules share some of the same "features." For the highest stress areas, I use Kevlar thread and supplement that with transparent silk wraps. The Kevlar thread is yellow and does not become transparent, but matches the cane pretty well.

For my transparent wraps, I use YLI 213 silk thread which is a very pale yellow. Truly disappears on the cane. I use epoxy followed by varnish and the resultant transparency is excellent.

Tim

[henkverhaar]

I think henkverhaar's situation is a little different than with normal ferrules. Unless I am mistaken, he is talking about bamboo ferrules, which do have some unusual needs for strong wraps. My carbon-fiber tube-spigot ferrules share some of the same "features." For the highest stress areas, I use Kevlar thread and supplement that with transparent silk wraps. The Kevlar thread is yellow and does not become transparent, but matches the cane pretty well.

Tim - correct. I wasn't referring to either normal delams, or failures at 'normal' nickel silver (or other metal) ferrules, I was specifically referring to the thin glue surfaces you have in a female bamboo ferrule, where the wall thickness of the hollow section is (in my case) 0.9 mm (0.035"), and thus the glue line is 1.04 mm (0.041")... Without wrap, you just push apart the strips when joining the sections, pushing the male into the female. A silk wrap will hold it together under normal assembly but it looks like it may not be up to the rigors of actual fishing - at least not in my case... So I opted to have

- a short reinforcing wrap with nylon thread at the very end of the female, and
- change to (undyed) polyester, to see whether that makes a difference.

So far this seems to work, although I cant say whether just one of these would be sufficient - it might be, in fact. As said, the only 'drawback' so far is the reduced invisibility of polyester vs. silk.

[munsey w]

This is the white silk from Proof with straight varnish over it on the lower two rods. Came out very clear.

[joehudock]

This is the white silk from Proof with straight varnish over it on the lower two rods. Came out very clear.

Those are really great looking wraps.

[Doug K]

I only have experience with using flexcoat light epoxy for clear wraps. I use a natural silk that is more of an off-white, just about tan. I mix the epoxy and some denatured alcohol in a 1:1:1 mix.

interesting.. I used flexcoat light epoxy without thinning, white nylon A thread - the repair wrap came out bright white, the epoxy worked as a color preserver apparently..
On other threads the flexcoat seems to penetrate and behave as expected, also had to reset a ferrule and the blue wrap with yellow tip came out fine.

Being lazy I used a furniture wood touch-up marker oak colour, to mark over the bright white and dull it down a bit.

[JMQ4]

have had best luck with MOW varnish

[Skimpole]

To the original poster. Which General Finishes varnish was this? Second, was it fairly new?

On the upside, you may have a varnish that does not require color preserver when the time comes you want that. A few test wraps with different colors would verify.