Wood lathe help

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PlaneOldMike
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Wood lathe help

#1

Post by PlaneOldMike »

Hey y’all.
I hope you are all doing well.

I’m creating this post In the hopes of receiving the opinions of those who use a wood lathe to create ferrule stations and/or reel seat spacers.

Recently I have dug into the back of the old shed in my yard, and located my grandfathers/fathers/now mine, 1972 Craftsman 1/2hp 12” wood lathe.
It’s taking a few days but I’ve got it back up into working condition. It’s ready and wanting to do some work.

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The lathe does have a pass through spindle. Maximum size would be 0.370” or 9.45mm.

My Question is, which type of chuck do you prefer for turning ferrule stations? And if you have the time, why? I make hex trout rods, and I’m looking to get either a 3-jaw or a collet type. I was reading old posts on the subject, and came across a thread about someone having issues with a station. In that thread I read a comment about specific collet this rod maker prefers.
henkverhaar wrote:
06/03/20 09:05
kilgore wrote:I have a three jaw chuck and wonder whether one of the jaws is slightly out of sync.
You really don't want to do this with a 3-jaw chuck... I would recomment investing in an inexpensive (small gauge) collet chuck (with e.g. ER20, or possibly ER25 collets) for your lathe... Personally, I use the Axminster Junior collet chuck - they have it in three different spindle thread sizes, M33, 1"x8tpi and 3/4"x16tpi.
This is the chuck.

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The other choice is a three jaw chuck. I don’t have a back plate so I’m looking to get a thread on Chuck. One I found is this.

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My thread is 3/4” -16.

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I’d really love to hear your opinions on pros and cons of the ones you’ve used. I’d also appreciate any recommendations for an entry level one of said brand, and where it could be purchased.

Please, I don’t want to stir the pot on any argument for or against either type. I just want to make the best informed decision I can when I make a purchase.

Thanks everyone!
Mike
Last edited by PlaneOldMike on 03/21/21 19:30, edited 7 times in total.
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trland
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Re: Wood lathe chuck help

#2

Post by trland »

Mike, We have the exact wood lathe you have but only use it for turning cork grips on or off the rod and for roughing wood for reel seat inserts. I don't remember if it has a large enough hole in the headstock for decent sized rods to pass through. You may want to check that and then make sure the chuck you get also has a large enough hole as well. I don't know brands well enough to make specific recommendations. FWIW, we don't have any issues using a 3 jaw chuck for cutting ferrule stations but we use our precision metal lathe and diamond hole saws mounted in the tailstock to cut the stations perfectly parallel to the rod. The chuck is tuned to about 1 thousandth runout 1/4" from the jaws. Mike

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Re: Wood lathe chuck help

#3

Post by galt »

For what it is worth, I use a 3 jaw on an engine lathe with no issues. I don.t know if you would gain any more accuracy or precision by holding a hex shape in a round collet. Grizzly has inexpensive options.

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BigTJ
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Re: Wood lathe chuck help

#4

Post by BigTJ »

You didn’t mention your intended geometry, most people make hexes, a 3-jaw is best for those, 4 jaw if you are making quads or pentas. I prefer a 4- jaw for all around as you can tape up or make a split ring out of wood for turning hex and pentas and it’s great for reel seat inserts.

Whatever you do don’t go to town at high rom with sandpaper it’s a sure fire way to run into issues no matter what kind of lathe you have. Careful draw filing is one of the best ways to turn a true long cylinder - machinist handbooks and the internet give advice on this. A light touch to avoid deflection is safer and will give you better results. You can also just count passes and rotate the chuck by hand (i.e 5 passes per corner, rotate, repeat). A file handle and other normal lathe safety protocols for hand filing under power are a must.

Good luck,

John

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Re: Wood lathe chuck help

#5

Post by GrayHackleRods »

Looks like the spindle has 3/4-16 threads, in that case I’d get this collet chuck, https://bealltool.com/products/turning/colletchuck.php and these collets if you are making hexes https://store.grayhacklerods.net/produc ... hex-collet. Personally do not like 3 of 4 jaw chucks as you can easily crack the blank if you tighten them too much, never seen that done with a collet chuck as it puts equal pressure around the circumference of the blank. I’ve used this collect chuck on my Sherline lathe for a number of years and couldn’t be happier with it. BTW, some minor financial interest.
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Re: Wood lathe chuck help

#6

Post by 6tUc05 »

As an avid wood turner for over 30 years, the 3-jaw chuck should work quite well. An Extremely important point that HAS NOT been mentioned is the need for a "steady rest" on the backside of your lathe to control the "whip" of that portion of the rod extending out the back side of your head stock IF you can pass the rod shaft through the spindle. This is ESPECIALLY true for rod tips. I cannot think of a quicker or more definite way to destroy a rod section than to have that potion of the blank unsupported. A simple homemade 3-roller rod wrapping stand that can be readily be adjusted for "center-line height" and linear alignment, and firmly held in place, is all you need. You will need a table or small stand behind the head stock to support the "steady rest". A "steady rest" aft of your head stock is nothing more than a "centering tail stock" on the opposite side of the head stock. As most wood turners sand their work on the running lathe, often on spindles no larger than the "diameters" of a rod section, a bit of practice/experience at doing this on wood on the lathe should prepare you for "turning" ferrule stations on the running lathe with no problems.

I will add a photo of my homemade steady rest tomorrow. (My camera is currently "out-of-pocket".)

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BigTJ
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Re: Wood lathe chuck help

#7

Post by BigTJ »

GrayHackleRods wrote:
03/09/21 20:16
Looks like the spindle has 3/4-16 threads, in that case I’d get this collet chuck, https://bealltool.com/products/turning/colletchuck.php and these collets if you are making hexes https://store.grayhacklerods.net/produc ... hex-collet. Personally do not like 3 of 4 jaw chucks as you can easily crack the blank if you tighten them too much, never seen that done with a collet chuck as it puts equal pressure around the circumference of the blank. I’ve used this collect chuck on my Sherline lathe for a number of years and couldn’t be happier with it. BTW, some minor financial interest.
In my experience it’s nearly impossible to crack a rod blank with a chuck assuming it isn’t cranked down unnecessarily. . There is some risk with a hollow built blank but I alway chuck the rod up on a dam to be safe. A crack from reasonable pressure applied by a chuck is probably a sign of improper glue-up / delamination.

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henkverhaar
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Re: Wood lathe chuck help

#8

Post by henkverhaar »

6tUc05 wrote:
03/09/21 20:35
As an avid wood turner for over 30 years, the 3-jaw chuck should work quite well. An Extremely important point that HAS NOT been mentioned is the need for a "steady rest" on the backside of your lathe to control the "whip" of that portion of the rod extending out the back side of your head stock IF you can pass the rod shaft through the spindle.
Agree

- make sure the spindle is hollow and will let the rod section through - not familiar with this model, and from the pix I can't see whether it is/does
- my preference is for a collet chuck - I use the Axminster also shown above
- outboard support is essential. However, you don't necessarily need a contraption for that. I support with my left hand, and operate the chisel with my right hand only. Works well for me - when I was still using metal ferrules that is. These days I normally only do bamboo ferrules.

For reel seat inserts, you either need hardware that takes symmetric barrels - that is easy. Just make sure you drill your blank first (preferably on the lathe if you can put a drill chuck in the tail stock), then clamp the drilled blank between centers. Use a homemade friction drive as your drive center - piece of wood in the chuck, turn it down so it fits inside the drilled hole with a taper shallow enough that it will drive the blank under slight pressure from the live center. I have a whole selection of these, made for different purposes, lying ready on a shelf behind my lathe. If you are using hardware that requires a morticed barrel/insert, you either make the mortice on a routing table, or if you want to do that on the lathe, you need an asymmetric chuck, or some other way to mount the barrel off-center but still parallel... In theory that can be done with simple centers, but I wouldn't do it personally. You also need to take certain precautions to ensure you get a good symmetrical mortice, such as only turning with the cutting end (tip of a gouge) at exactly center height... - it's actually more scraping than cutting in this case.

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Re: Wood lathe chuck help

#9

Post by jim royston »

If you can't pass the section through the headstock spindle, it won't serve your purposes of ferrule fitting For reel seat inserts, you're better off with a spur drive on the headstock and a live center on the tailstock. Mark your centers on your dowel stock or square stock, mount on those centers and turn to your hearts content.

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Re: Wood lathe chuck help

#10

Post by Bill Moschler »

Yes to checking that the rod will pass through the lathe head. yes to a steady rest to keep outboard portion of the rod from whipping. I use a 3 jaw like you show and it works. You have to keep your knuckles out of the chuck on a wood lathe. Penn State industries sells a little aluminum scroll chuck that works also. I have one in that thread size. The scroll chuck is cheaper and maybe safer. But not as versatile as the big 3 jaw.

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Re: Wood lathe chuck help

#11

Post by Fcs »

I second the recommendation of the Beall er32 collet chuck, if you want to go this route. I use mine all the time on my Sherline. I was going to suggest the Sherline 3 jaw chuck, which mounts on the same threads, but your threaded spindle nose is too long and the chuck couldn’t register against the flat behind the thread, whatever it’s called.

Hang in there Mike we’ll have your stimulus check spent for you in no time.
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Re: Wood lathe chuck help

#12

Post by 6tUc05 »

With respect to turning reel seat inserts, as the old saying that "there is more than one way to skin a cat" goes, there is more than one way to turn these inserts. To begin with, you can start with either round or square stock; your choice. A spur drive, such as you have on your lathe, will work for either type stock. Either way, you first need to mark the center of your stock on both ends. For round stock, you can also use either a 3- or 4-jaw chuck. You CAN use a 3-jaw chuck for square stock, but you must first pre-drill it and use a mandrel that can be securely held in the 3-jaw chuck. You can make your own mandrels from either round stock or all-thread of the appropriate diameter for your pre-drilled bore. I personally prefer all-thread as it allows me to put a nut on the tail stock end to tighten the wood to the mandrel for turning as the insert "blank" can be compressed against the chuck*. As an alternative to a mandrel for pre-drilled blanks, instead of using wood, as Henk suggests, I made a set of plugs from Delrin rod; one for each end of the blank. I use 1" dia. Delrin and turn down to get a nice snug fit in the bore of the blank. I leave only about 1/2" of the original 1" dia. for the tail end of the blank, but at least 1" for the head end. This extra length allows me to tightly chuck this plug into my 3-law chuck. I have sets of these plugs for the various insert bores that I encounter. Using these plugs, one can compress the blank between the head and tail stocks to facilitate turning. As Delrin is somewhat "self-lubricating", I have found that I can use a dead center in my tail stock when I use these plugs. However, I do prefer a live center for all of my turning where a tail stock centering device is necessary. To facilitate centering the tail end plugs, and the tail end of my mandrels, I drill an "indent", or "divot", into that end using an appropriate size "centering bit". Although you can pre-drill your insert stock with either a drill press or a hand drill (IF you have an extremely steady hand!), I much prefer to do all drilling on the lathe. I use both 3-jaw and 4-jaw chucks on my Delta wood turning lathe. My 3-jaw chucks are rather substantial, and pricey. My 4-jaw chucks are both Nova chucks, which are rather inexpensive; especially if you watch for the wood worker's (turner's) supply house sales. A set of "centering" bits (they come in sets of five (5) different sizes) is not much more than the price of a six-pack.

* A word of CAUTION! When using a mandrel in a 3-/4-jaw chuck, it is highly advisable to put a "sacrificial" block of wood between the jaws and the turning blank to provide ample clearance between the insert blank and the insert blank as the extended jaws can give a NASTY whack to hands that get too close!! (DO NOT ask me how I know!!!) One can easily make a wood "bushing/spacer" that fits over the mandrel and that is about the same OD as the final insert for this purpose.

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Re: Wood lathe chuck help

#13

Post by 6tUc05 »

As promised, here is a photo of my homemade steady rest that I use on the outboard (wood turner's term for the side of the headstock opposite the bed or "ways") side of my headstock when turning ferrule stations, etc. on rod sections. The hole in the base is for bolting to a table that sits to the left of my lathe. With a proper "draw plate" it can be mounted between the ways for "over the bed" use. Obviously, an alternate mounting base would be necessary for mounting to a tubular bed, or way, as shown by the OP.
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PlaneOldMike
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Re: Wood lathe chuck help

#14

Post by PlaneOldMike »

Thanks everyone, for all the great information! You gave me a lot more than I was expecting. Great suggestions as well!

I do have a pass through spindle, so using it for ferrule stations is a go. Thanks for the picture of your steady rest 6tUc05. I like the idea of rollers.

I purchased an inexpensive 3-jaw chuck for starters. It will help me get going. I have much more to think about though now.

Time to start looking for tail stock attachments now. Guess a drill chuck with an MT-1 is the logical choice.
Just a guy, trying to build a tool.

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BigTJ
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Re: Wood lathe chuck help

#15

Post by BigTJ »

You can make a much simpler support for the free end with 2 ft of heavy gauge plastic coated wire. Make about 10 wraps around a 3/4 inch dowel. Cut the ends so you have enough wire to “stand up” the height of your through hole. Staple the wire to a small board. Bend everything until the wire coils line up with the headstock through hole. Clamp the board to your bench or screw it down. 10 mins to make cheap and works great. I’ll post a pic tonight.

Your plan for a 3 jaw and drill chuck is good. Add to your tail stock a live center and get a turning spur to fit your headstock and you will be all set

If you don’t have a cover for that pulley it would be a good idea to make one. It might not take your fingers off if they find their way in there at 2,000 rpm but then again odds are you probably don’t want to find out.

John

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PlaneOldMike
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Re: Wood lathe chuck help

#16

Post by PlaneOldMike »

That’s a pretty skookum idea for the outboard support. Might just have one made before your picture shows up. I can totally visualize what you’re explaining. I do currently have a spur for the headstock John. So I’m good to go there. I have a “cup center ” in the tailstock right now. I’ll have to look into the difference between the three. I do possess the original pulley cover, and it will be going on once I’m totally done cleaning and mounting.
Thanks for your concern for my digits. ;)

Know it’s time to learn how to dry wood without it splitting :rollin I have some small applewood I just took down recently.
I’m hoping to use it for reel seat spacers.
Just a guy, trying to build a tool.

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Re: Wood lathe chuck help

#17

Post by 6tUc05 »

You can't go wrong with a "live center" for the tailstock. The point, as on a spur drive, freely rotates with the stock center point as the stock turns. It is based on an enclosed ball bearing, and can be used for anything you want to turn. A Jacobs Chuck in the proper Morse taper is also very nice to have as it will permit you to drill the insert center bore while it is still chucked up on the lathe, thus eliminating the need for a drill press if you don't already have one. Drilling out the bore while still on the lathe helps maintain proper concentricity, as opposed to drilling on a drill press. It definitely can be done with a drill press; but, why got to the trouble of having to have a jig for the drill press and making sure it is properly centered when all you have to do for boring on the lathe is to remove the tailstock centering device, put in a Jacobs chuck with a drill bit and go at it? Everything is already centered! The cup center will work OK for reel seat inserts. I just prefer a live center solely for it's versatility.

Incidentally, red streaked apple makes beautiful inserts!! I have made several over the years and have been pleased with everyone. FYI, be SURE to coat all of the cut ends of your "logs" with either paraffin wax or old latex paint to prevent checking, which can ruin them for your use. Also, among wood turners the "Rule of Thumb" for proper drying is one year of drying time for each 1" (one inch) of log/slab diameter/thickness. A bit longer DOES NOT HURT. They can be dried outdoors provided they are covered from the rain and are "stickered" (1" thick slats placed between each layer to ensure good air flow around all sides). They should be stickered even if dried indoors. There are articles in the wood working and wood turning journals on drying in a microwave. You will need a "moisture meter" (ammeter in day-to-day parlance) if you "microwave dry" to measure the initial moisture content and to determine when you have reached an acceptable endpoint for turning.

Good luck with your new venture!!

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Re: Wood lathe chuck help

#18

Post by PlaneOldMike »

Here’s the apple. It was a “King” Apple tree. I cut it down to slabs 1” (ish) thick. I’ll get som wax tomorrow.

Thanks for the tip.

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henkverhaar
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Re: Wood lathe chuck help

#19

Post by henkverhaar »

PlaneOldMike wrote:
03/11/21 19:03
Know it’s time to learn how to dry wood without it splitting :rollin I have some small applewood I just took down recently.
Seal the end grain. There are various methods to do this, such as dipping in molten candle wax, or coating with slightly thinned white glue (Titebond or similar). There are also products on the market that are formulated expressly for this.

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BigTJ
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Re: Wood lathe chuck help

#20

Post by BigTJ »

Not pretty but it works. This is the one for my Sherline mini metal lathe not sure where the one for my jet wood lathe went to - it’s just a few inches taller with slightly heavier wire. If you don’t have any suitable wire handy just about any hardware store sells it by the foot.

For your wood drying paint the ends with whatever paint you have around the house. 2-3 coats. Primer will work too. Dry those puppies a couple years. Looks like a knockout. If the wood is a little soft finish with super glue (spin it on the lathe) then overcoat with gorilla glue again spun on the lathe.

Cheers,

John


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Last edited by BigTJ on 03/12/21 08:53, edited 2 times in total.

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