Wright McGill guide wraps - correct thread/finish

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oldschoolcane
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Wright McGill guide wraps - correct thread/finish

#1

Post by oldschoolcane »

Replacing a couple of guides on a Wright McGill/Old Faithful Thoroughbred. Sinclair's Rod Restoration book calls for #27 Beige on the thread chart.
YLI - #226, 100 or #815 - 50. When I finish the wraps, they turn brown and look nothing like the original antique gold wraps? I used YLI #241 and it also turns a light brown or at least a dull shade of gold? How were the original rod wraps finished to create the look of these guides? Here are images of the original wraps.

Image

Image

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EastslopesTH
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Re: Wright McGill guide wraps - correct thread/finish

#2

Post by EastslopesTH »

How are you finishing the wraps? Are you just using varnish without color preserver? If CP is used , what are you using to preserve the wraps before varnish?

I believe Granger/W&M generally used lacquer as a CP on their wraps prior to varnish.

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Shrimpman
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Re: Wright McGill guide wraps - correct thread/finish

#3

Post by Shrimpman »

The originals are definitely CPd and I expect the gold tinge to be varnish "aging" of beige/tan thread. To closely match the old wraps, something like amber shellac would be used as a CP, then varnish.

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oldschoolcane
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Re: Wright McGill guide wraps - correct thread/finish

#4

Post by oldschoolcane »

I finish the wraps using clear shellac as the CP and Spar. What surprises me is just how much of a difference there is between the original wraps and the new replacement wrap? The original thread appears gold and the new beige thread turns almost a light brown? I also tried the antique gold which was a better match but not really close enough.

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EastslopesTH
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Re: Wright McGill guide wraps - correct thread/finish

#5

Post by EastslopesTH »

I agree with Shrimpman on this being aged varnish. To match existing wraps with years of patina, I tint various CP like Al's Color rite or Varatane Diamond water-based polyurethane with amber or yellow wood dyes and apply to the recommended silk thread. However if you don't have dyes, it may be easier to find a more appropriate silk thread that appears aged without dyed CP.

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oldschoolcane
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Re: Wright McGill guide wraps - correct thread/finish

#6

Post by oldschoolcane »

Okay, thank you. I'll have to try what you suggested.

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BigTJ
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Re: Wright McGill guide wraps - correct thread/finish

#7

Post by BigTJ »

My preference is to not fiddle with matching aged wraps. They are replacement wraps so seems like it’s only fair for that to be apparent. I used the most appropriate silk CP and varnish I can lay my hands on. For grangers nitrocellulose lacquer is at least 50% of the battle.

John

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Shrimpman
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Re: Wright McGill guide wraps - correct thread/finish

#8

Post by Shrimpman »

I tend to agree with John on this, despite my own history of closely matching vintage wraps. If I sell a rod with repair wraps, I make note of it, but who knows what happens down the road. That said, I don't dabble in Garrison's and Dickersons and any inadvertent deception wouldn't break the bank.
If the silk is original and it looks original, what's the harm, aside from emotional? ;)

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EastslopesTH
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Re: Wright McGill guide wraps - correct thread/finish

#9

Post by EastslopesTH »

I pretty much echo Shrimpman sentiments on this. Most of my work is restoring/repairing for others and unless it is a complete restoration (i.e. replacing all wraps), this generally means matching patina of existing wraps. Try matching 75-yr old Granger green wraps!!

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BigTJ
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Re: Wright McGill guide wraps - correct thread/finish

#10

Post by BigTJ »

Eastslopes I hear you - it was in the middle of a maddening attempt of trying to match an old Granger Special that I had the epiphany - why am I doing this? It’s a replacement wrap it just needs to be functional and honor the original materials. As a group of collectors and restorationists it would be nice if we could get people to start thinking there is also no real harm in an old rod with one or two slightly off-shade wraps either. Reset ferrule wraps too. We can think of it as a badge of honor for putting an old rod back in service.

The dark underbelly of collecting are the flippers trying to pass off repaired rods as original. I see it more than I’d like to. The fewer folks are willing to do the repair work that way the less it will happen.

I hope we can all agree tinting wraps on a total re-do is a no-no.

John
Last edited by BigTJ on 04/14/21 12:09, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Wright McGill guide wraps - correct thread/finish

#12

Post by jvh »

I don't understand why you wouldn't make every attempt to match a wrap perfectly, if possible. I mean would take a new 75K truck to a body shop to have a fender repaired and expect the paint not to match. Why should a rod be any different.
Vern

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BigTJ
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Re: Wright McGill guide wraps - correct thread/finish

#13

Post by BigTJ »

Vern,

You just proved my point. That’s why CarFax was invented. A car that has been in an accident isn’t worth as much as it was before. People lied about previous accidents like crazy before CarFax was invented. And the body shops use the original OEM paint they don’t tint it to try to intentionally hide a repair or try to make the paint look old and yellowed without crossing an ethical boundary.

Imagine how it feels to pay a 10-15% premium on a rod purported to be all original only to find out later four wraps are replacements. It’s not just due to dishonesty - rods change hands and the provenance is lost. There is no CarFax for bamboo rods so being able to tell wraps are replaced is the honest way to go. Make sense?

Cheers,

John
Last edited by BigTJ on 04/14/21 16:30, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Wright McGill guide wraps - correct thread/finish

#14

Post by jvh »

The point Is would you be happy with mismatched paint?

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BigTJ
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Re: Wright McGill guide wraps - correct thread/finish

#15

Post by BigTJ »

Respectfully disagree about that being the point. The point is we should be ok with repaired wraps on an old rod because it’s borderline dishonest when we try to make them look old. A new $75 K truck is not a 75 year old collectible.

The paint never is an exact match on a car repair either when you look closely. So yeah I’m ok if my auto body guy doesn’t make a perfect match to the paint on my 8 year old vehicle. Especially not expensive ting him to get it right on a 75 year old car.

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Re: Wright McGill guide wraps - correct thread/finish

#16

Post by jvh »

I guess we are going to agree to disagree. If I'm doing a rod for myself then your right it does not matter. If I'm paying or if someone is paying me then a perfect match should be the goal. If not you should keep looking for a restorer.
Vern

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BigTJ
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Re: Wright McGill guide wraps - correct thread/finish

#17

Post by BigTJ »

And therein lies the problem. A lot of people agree with you the perfect match should be the goal. Without knowing it’s borderline unethical or maybe not even borderline. We are basically saying it is OK to fake the rod’s condition. Where do we draw the line on that? Personally I will not do it - not if I do the work not if I pay for it. Altruism probably won’t get me anywhere but I feel better about what happened with the rods that went through my hands.

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Re: Wright McGill guide wraps - correct thread/finish

#18

Post by jvh »

I just don't understand why purposely mismatching is acceptable. I'm done now.
Vern

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BigTJ
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Re: Wright McGill guide wraps - correct thread/finish

#19

Post by BigTJ »

It’s not purposely mismatching when you use the original thread CP and varnish. You are purposely correctly restoring the wrap as it should look rather than faking it to look old with materials the original rod never used like tinted shellac.

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Re: Wright McGill guide wraps - correct thread/finish

#20

Post by LeeO »

Completely agree on the potential for exact matching to be used to fraudulently label a rod all original.
Lee Orr
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