Rods with "graphite spigot" joints

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jan96
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Rods with "graphite spigot" joints

#1

Post by jan96 »

Honestly, I don't know if I already posted photos of my rods made with "spigot" joints. Anyway, here are the photos :)
r :)
7'9''#4, tonkin bamboo
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And here are some photos of the process how I made the rod..
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This one is from 2004, a 6'7''#5 with graphite inserts and spigot joint.. Local bamboo(not tonkin) Used champagne stoppers for the grip and reelseat insert. Graphite like - extra fast action.
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This one has not a spigot joint but is built with bamboo and graphite combination - "Carbonica" 7'#4, built in 2001, local bamboo with graphite inserts and "Easton" aluminum ferrules, champagne cork stoppers for the grip and r.seat :)
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Bill M.
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Re: Rods with "graphite spigot" joints

#2

Post by Bill M. »

Beautiful rods. Interesting idea for the ferrules. Great looking work.

Thanks for the posting.

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Re: Rods with "graphite spigot" joints

#3

Post by DonT »

Hi Jan,

I am about to make a rod with a spigot joint like you have showed. Do you mind sharing how thick the bamboo walls are around the graphite? They look pretty thin. Is it something like a mm? Also, I was considering reinforcing the male graphite section with a turned bamboo insert. Is this going to be enough or do I really need to use metal? I know there is a lot of stress on the male right at the joint since I have broken my last two experiments there when I really stressed the assembled blanks to see if they would hold up. Neither had the graphite reinforced, it was still hollow.

Thanks,
'Don
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jan96
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Re: Rods with "graphite spigot" joints

#4

Post by jan96 »

DonT wrote:
11/28/21 20:34
Hi Jan,

I am about to make a rod with a spigot joint like you have showed. Do you mind sharing how thick the bamboo walls are around the graphite? They look pretty thin. Is it something like a mm? Also, I was considering reinforcing the male graphite section with a turned bamboo insert. Is this going to be enough or do I really need to use metal? I know there is a lot of stress on the male right at the joint since I have broken my last two experiments there when I really stressed the assembled blanks to see if they would hold up. Neither had the graphite reinforced, it was still hollow.

Thanks,
'Don
Hi Don, bamboo wall thickness "around graphite" on the first rod is 0.67mm and 0.90mm on the second. For the spigot you may use solid graphite - graphite tubes filled with other smaller tubes till you get the "solid" section. Or as I did filled with steel rod. I wouldn't recommend to use a hollow spigot.
r :)

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Re: Rods with "graphite spigot" joints

#5

Post by DonT »

Thanks!
Don Titterington
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jmcj1984
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Re: Rods with "graphite spigot" joints

#6

Post by jmcj1984 »

Very nice work looks great do you feel any difference is the casting action compared to standard ferrels?

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Re: Rods with "graphite spigot" joints

#7

Post by ffftroutbum »

Jan, that is pretty cool. Nice work. Do you have a picture of what the rod looks like joined together? Thanks.

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Re: Rods with "graphite spigot" joints

#8

Post by StePhDen »

What’s the outlook for repairability?


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Gnome
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Re: Rods with "graphite spigot" joints

#9

Post by Gnome »

Jan

by using a solid spigot what are the advantages over the "Tube within a tube within a tube" leading to a hollow spigot as used by SCOTT and Winston and so many others on Millions of rods, that seems to be very well proven technology over the last 40+ years?????

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Re: Rods with "graphite spigot" joints

#10

Post by adrien schnee »

Radivoj, your craftsmanship on these rods and several others you’ve shared recently is inspiring, and your aesthetic is refined and beautiful. Congratulations on your skill and versatility as a builder. Also - fabulous photos! Thank you very much for sharing your trout adventures and building with us.

Adrien

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oddsnrods
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Re: Rods with "graphite spigot" joints

#11

Post by oddsnrods »

The 'spigot' connection is intriguing, well done !

Hardy's used solid spigots on their glass rods, hollow on their early graphite. ABU used stainless steel solid spigots on some of their glass rods during the '70's.

Flexing, while sighting along a light glass 6' Hardy spinning rod,solid spigot, I notice a slight angle where the spigot flexes slightly more than the rest of the blank. This is, I would say, the challenge- to incorporate sufficient rigidity.

Malcolm

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Re: Rods with "graphite spigot" joints

#12

Post by DonT »

jmcj1984 wrote:
11/29/21 22:56
Very nice work looks great do you feel any difference is the casting action compared to standard ferrels?
I'm doing the experiment this fall. Neither rod is finished yet but I'll report.
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Tim Anderson
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Re: Rods with "graphite spigot" joints

#13

Post by Tim Anderson »

As one who has long experimented with carbon-fiber spigots for ferrules on cane rods, I can safely say that it is difficult to have appropriate stiffness right at the point where the spigot joins the parts of the bamboo blank. The fundamental problem is that stiffness depends strongly on the outside diameter of a spigot or blank. Make the diameter of the spigot larger and the surrounding bamboo is very thin walled.

Some of my history with variations on spigots is in Issue 7, Page 5 and Issue 9, Page 51 of the IBRA Bamboo Journal (http://www.rodmakers.eu/) and here: http://www.gespliesste.ch/en/gathering- ... tures.html. As shown there, I have ended up with an external carbon-fiber sleeve to increase stiffness right at the joint. I am still making rods using that ferrule design.

The main advantages of such composite ferrules is the low weight which reduces swing weight toward the tip of multi-section rods and flexibility a bit more like the adjacent bamboo.

All ferrules are a compromise. I am firmly convinced that there is no "perfect" ferrule.

Tim

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jan96
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Re: Rods with "graphite spigot" joints

#14

Post by jan96 »

Gnome wrote:
11/30/21 08:20
Jan

by using a solid spigot what are the advantages over the "Tube within a tube within a tube" leading to a hollow spigot as used by SCOTT and Winston and so many others on Millions of rods, that seems to be very well proven technology over the last 40+ years?????
Mr.Hatton, .. Jeff, I wasn't talking about advantages or disadvantages of solid vs hollow graphite "spigot" system. I simply presented a few rods I built with the graphite spigot joint system. I don't like to make all rods I build look the same... This was only one of the experiments I like to do...

Hollow spigot on Scott and Winston rods... Are you talking here about graphite or bamboo rods?

See this photo I took of some rods with "spigot" system. From top to bottom: Round graphite rod I built from blank in '95, Hardy fiberglass rod, my "Carbonica" built in 2004 with local bamboo and graphite inserts, Fibatube fiberglass, Bruce & Walker Hexagraph graphite. Spigot of "Carbonica" is much thinner than spigots on other rods, regarding to the wall thickness and therefore outer diameter. Bamboo wall thickness is 0.90mm, I was afraid to go thinner and therefore there was not many "space" left in the middle for spigot. So I preferred to make it solid to avoid "hinge" effect or even worse - breakage at the "weak point" which is at the end of the blank and beginning of spigot.
r :)
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jan96
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Re: Rods with

#15

Post by jan96 »

StePhDen wrote:
11/30/21 07:27
What’s the outlook for repairability?
Same as is with graphite/carbon rods... ;)
r :)

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Re: Rods with "graphite spigot" joints

#16

Post by DonT »

The tubes are captured in thread-reinforced bamboo and can't bend as much as they normally would in a graphite rod. Thus the stress gets concentrated right at the butt joint and the male needs to be reinforced there (or be a large enough tube to take the stress as Tim says).
Last edited by DonT on 11/30/21 15:02, edited 1 time in total.
Don Titterington
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jan96
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Re: Rods with "graphite spigot" joints

#17

Post by jan96 »

adrien schnee wrote:
11/30/21 09:29
Radivoj, your craftsmanship on these rods and several others you’ve shared recently is inspiring, and your aesthetic is refined and beautiful. Congratulations on your skill and versatility as a builder. Also - fabulous photos! Thank you very much for sharing your trout adventures and building with us.

Adrien
Thank you very much Adrien :)

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jan96
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Re: Rods with "graphite spigot" joints

#18

Post by jan96 »

Gnome wrote:
11/30/21 08:20
Jan

by using a solid spigot what are the advantages over the "Tube within a tube within a tube" leading to a hollow spigot as used by SCOTT and Winston and so many others on Millions of rods, that seems to be very well proven technology over the last 40+ years?????
A bit off topic.... A week ago. Here I'm fishing a rod built in your style - Mortised handle, bamboo ferrules, 7'3'' 3piece.. Last fishing day for the 2021 season.. :)
r :)
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Gnome
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Re: Rods with "graphite spigot" joints

#19

Post by Gnome »

Jan, the spigot type ferrule is an old design think about Fenwick and J Kennedy Fisher SCOTT Winston etcetera, SCOTT alone has well past 2 million rods with spigot type ferrules built on the "Tube within a tube within a tube" a long used and accepted practice and the reasons for using graphite ferrules are losing weight and the ability to refit after wear and smooth continuity of action (Not achieved when you insert a solid section compared to a hollow tube with the solid section making a flat spot!). by making the spigot solid you lose the first advantage of weight savings as well as adding in a flat spot and not maintaining the continuity of action. this is one area where the graphite boys are light years ahead of the bamboo crowd IMHO. and by going solid you lose the ability that the spigot has to transfer power smoothly because of the flat spot caused by the solid spigot not being allowed to deform as a hollow tube does under flex!! If solid spigots were the way to go the modern manufacturers would and yet they use hollow spigots, I wonder why??

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Re: Rods with "graphite spigot" joints

#20

Post by Tim Anderson »

As mentioned above, I have experimented with carbon fiber ferrules having spigots for quite some time. Solid carbon fiber rod is anything but heavy.

The diameter of spigot that can be used is (unless you are able to have bamboo walls as thin as Wayne Maca can make them) significantly less than the diameter of the adjacent blank so its stiffness will be less than the blank. Solid, unidirectional carbon fiber rods are readily available and can be turned down to whatever diameter is needed. Solid, unidirectional carbon fiber tubes are also easy to get, but only a few the diameters are available. Non-unidirectional tubes of various sizes are most easily obtained by cutting up inexpensive carbon-fiber (graphite) or glass rod blanks.

For those of us experimenting, the solid rods are cheap, easy to get, and, I repeat, very light in weight.

Tim

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