Glue line issue

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sanderson
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Glue line issue

#1

Post by sanderson »

I've completed 20 rods, #21 is a completed blank. The first 19, outside of some predictable learning moments, have been pretty consistent. I've been particularly happy with glue up, dimensions, and clean/straight flats free of glue lines. My last 2 rods have had some horrendous glue lines. The only 2 changes to my prep/procedure/planing are trying a 3x3 node placement and I split the strips for these 2 rods in the spring, 4-5 months ago. Would either of those changes lend themselves to causing glue lines, or contribute? Things look good when I tape up after final planing. Any advice from the experts out there?

trland
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Re: Glue line issue

#2

Post by trland »

Since you say everything looks good after final planing and it started after 20 rods, I would look at your binder first and see if some dried glue, etc. may be getting between your strips during glue-up. Might just be time for a good inspection/cleaning/shakedown.

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LeeO
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Re: Glue line issue

#3

Post by LeeO »

Check your plane. Take it apart and make sure the throat and adjustment are clean.
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sanderson
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Re: Glue line issue

#4

Post by sanderson »

Appreciate the feedback, I'll take a close look at my equipment. glue flakes may be possible, and I rotate a couple LN planes between a grooved and no grooved, though I'm usually pretty attentive with my blades, throat and sole, but may be doing something poorly. Thank you.

bluesjay
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Re: Glue line issue

#5

Post by bluesjay »

Hi Guys, Glue lines aren't always about binding/planing. The corners can be damaged or just not sharp.

Jay Edwards

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Re: Glue line issue

#6

Post by BGreer »

Sanderson,

You didnt mention specifically where on the blank you have glue lines.
If the glue lines are at the nodes or near the nodes then I would suspect a problem with node prep. (I think we've all been there.)

If it is at random places on the blank then the problem lies somewhere else in the procedure.
Look at the angles of your strips closely, look at the side apexes of your strips closely also.
Shaving the pith apex to avoid the six apexes trying to occupy the same space is also key.

Brian

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Re: Glue line issue

#7

Post by Pterrano »

What kind of node stagger were you using previously. 3x3 will place the mode nodes adjacent to one another. If they're not flat and straight enough there may be no amount of binding that will get rid of the gaps. Just some food for thought.

sanderson
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Re: Glue line issue

#8

Post by sanderson »

Well, I had used 2x2x2. Most, but not all the lines have been around the nodes. I actually made a point to shave more of apex on this last rod, to no avail.
Jay, when you refer to damaged or "not sharp" corners, I'm not sure what that implies in process or actual appearance? I don't notice any tear out peeling off the edges and I run starett gauge to help confirm my triangles.
Bgreer, entirely possible my node work is shabby. I was hoping an obvious, simpler explanation would appear. I assumed I've become more, not less, proficient at node prep, but I hate doing it, so entirely possible I've digressed.

jim royston
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Re: Glue line issue

#9

Post by jim royston »

What are you gluing with? It's possible that your binding pressure is not adequate in forcing excess glue from the joints, leaving them slightly open in spots.

sanderson
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Re: Glue line issue

#10

Post by sanderson »

TBIII, but I haven't really changed my weighting regiment.

jim royston
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Re: Glue line issue

#11

Post by jim royston »

I doubt that TB3 is the issue then, that's pretty runny stuff.

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avyoung
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Re: Glue line issue

#12

Post by avyoung »

I know you mention using a Starett 60 degree gauge but is there *any* possibility you're making the splines convex for some reason?

BearE
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Re: Glue line issue

#13

Post by BearE »

Is it possible you are getting pushback from the nodes when planing and that leads to an overview? I have had something similar in the past and I didn't realize some of my strips had narrow sections that were hard to see until there was resorcinol in the seams. Changed my final planing procedure to avoid that, mainly by cutting the final few thousands using a .0005 shaving setting on the plane

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BearE
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Re: Glue line issue

#14

Post by BearE »

...leads to an overcut?

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bluesjay
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Re: Glue line issue

#15

Post by bluesjay »

Hi Guys, I use a mill for close to size. I have found 'rounded' corners are a problem for me at times. It's hard to see, and it can be, or could be a problem when planing as well. If the planed surface doesn't intersect the enamel the a miniscule 'rounded' edge can happen. Really tough to see until glue up, and then....... It can be found with a mic, but that can mean a lot of measuring. It's probably not the most common cause, but something to look for.

Jay Edwards

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fragmentum
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Re: Glue line issue

#16

Post by fragmentum »

Assuming you are placing your strips in the same sequence for each section, it is a good idea to dry bind your strips and inspect for glue line voids in the assembly, and fix any that appear BEFORE finally glue binding them together. Dry bind, fix, dry bins again if needed... then glue up.

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LeeO
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Re: Glue line issue

#17

Post by LeeO »

A picture would be really helpful. It could be something as simple as tear out
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sanderson
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Re: Glue line issue

#18

Post by sanderson »

here's the worst, btw, all have been in butt sections.
Image

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LeeO
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Re: Glue line issue

#19

Post by LeeO »

That looks like it might be a bad angle. Also, do you sand off the apex on the pith before glue up?
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sanderson
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Re: Glue line issue

#20

Post by sanderson »

yes, I sand off pith. may be time to do a little more frequent measuring of strips. thanks.

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