Gary Howells rods-- why the value?

[gmflyfish]

Orvis made a lot of rods every year in the 50's and 60's . They were a production shop (more than one person working on a rod). So no they would not have more value. IMHO and as the market shows

[cdmoore]

cregb,

When it comes to Howells tapers, I have found that I love some and can't stand others. Further, I have found this to be true for quite a few Howells fans during various discussions of his rods. Not only that, but the models that are appreciated vary considerably by person. This might be a "duh" revelation, perhaps applicable to most makers, but I've found it to be "more true" for Howells than other single makers. For example, I really like the 7'3" 3wt, the 8'3" 6wt, and the 8'9" 8wt (and a couple of one piece rods). I have tried to like the 8'6" 4wt several times, but I just don't. Others have found the 8'6" 4wt to die for.

My point is that, particularly with Howells, it has been my personal experience that if at first you don't succeed, try, try another taper. And if at first you do succeed, don't assume you'll like the other models!

And one other thing...I've also found that Howells rods can sometimes grow on you slowly and only through fishing, which seems to align with previous comments about Gary being a great angler. For instance, I came to know the 7'3" 3wt as a result of conversations with a Japanese friend and Howells fanatic about "the best 3wts". He put the Howells at the top of the list, so I hunted one down (thanks to a forum member). I thought it too soft at first, but became enamored of the rod after fishing it almost exclusively for an entire season of brook trout. But it's not for everyone.

I might be stating the obvious, but don't overlook the work or knowledge of Robert Bolt. His rods are generally a hair quicker than Gary's and much less expensive. And I believe he still has some Howells blanks if you are having trouble locating a particular model.

Happy Holidays everyone,

Chris

[Royalpark]

My point about Orvis rods is that scarcity should not trump performance
and durability when it comes to the value of a rod. Of course preference
is personal...one man's favorite rod is another man's tomato stake.

[deeply shallow]

GHH rod values, it can be an interesting journey…
I bought my first cane rod in 1980, don’t really remember why, but it took me a good while to truly get “into it”. Loved the craftsmanship, the elegant old Leonard brass cap, and especially the scent of that finish every time it was unpacked. But I always felt that I’d probably do better with faster actions, so I set out to find them.

Over the years I visited many shows, and threw dozens of rods. I carefully bought brisk, fast action cane. Among them a classic DF T&T, a really powerful Maxwell Hunt, typically zippy Kusse, quick Winston Stoner, tuned-up Winston Merrick tapers, even a brisk PHY, and maybe the quickest pre-fire Leonard ever? All the while I’d also notice continual comments about the enduring quality and exemplary esthetics of Howells rods.

So I tried a few Howells at the shows; they rarely showed up (hint), and when they did they were often heavily fished models, and they must also have all been Gary’s lighter options. I was unaware at the time that he built a light version of most models. Many of them struck me as being a bit softer than I thought I’d enjoy. So I laid off GHH rods as I couldn’t seem to find one to fit my casting preferences.

Time passed, I am very diligent about investing in a rod, and GHH rods continued to gain considerable value in the secondary market. I asked lots of people lots of questions. And the comments regarding Howells enduring quality and exemplary esthetics always continued.

Eventually I found a very early 7.5’, 3 3/8oz, 6wt on Per Brandin’s web site. The moment it came out of it’s tube I sensed perfection. Once it was assembled, the first few underhand twitches of the tiptop displayed the action’s immediate recovery; it wasn’t slow ! I had found a masterwork of hollow building craftsmanship, with a medium action all the way, smooth as silk.

After fishing it for a month or so, it actually made a few quicker hollow rods feel a bit stiff in comparison. Of course its not that they were actually stiff at all, its just that the Howells actions are so, so smooth, silk to the hand.

However I agree that the question of their cost is complex and somewhat confusing in today’s market. Last month I found very similar listings of GHH models spanning a full $2K differential. And neither those most expensive, or least expensive, appeared to be appreciatively different . So, not unlike many Leonard’s for instance, and in agreement with CD Moore’s previous comments, I’d have to suggest that you try as many GHH rods as you can to find just the right action for you.

Ernest Schwiebert wrote of Howells rods, "Howells finish is the equal of the Payne varnish work that most knowledgeable collectors agree is the finest rodmaking" “ No better rods have ever been made, and their detailing is exquisite” .

Quite a valuable endorsement .

Rick

[peacefisher]

Quite simply, Orvis made/built to many rods to be in enough demand to command high prices. The old supply /demand thing.
I am not fond of the Howell's action and even though I have only handled less than a dozen, I can't get past that "hinge" one third the way down the shaft, an action similar to the early glass rods of the 1950's. I believe bamboo rods like that wear out prematurely . Also, it seems to me that prices for a Howells have been in decline compared to the exorbitant prices realized in the mid 1990's.

[wctc1]

Peacefisher makes two excellent comments that strike out toward common sense. However; and in things Gary Howells, there always seems to be a "however," while researching the Howells book I stumbled upon an exclusive, informal club founded by Gary himself .... 4,000 or more trout taken on a single Howells rod without a set or breaking the ferrule wraps! Two quotes:

Quote #1: Howells says he makes the shorter rods because of “demand.” (Gary double underlines “demand” in ink.) He continues, “I personally don’t find them adequate for normal fishing distances of 20-30 feet.” And in the last paragraph, “My own 7ʹ3ʺ is a constant companion and has caught over 4,000 trout, the best being a 7¼ lb brown.”

Quote #2: How he made wraps at the bottom of ferrules was also one of Gary’s craft secrets. On heavily used rods of other makers, it’s not unusual to find wrap breaks or separations at the base of the ferrule. On one Howells rod, original ferrule wraps are still intact without cracks after, without exaggeration, landing about 4,000 trout. The rod is owned by an accomplished fly fisherman who wishes to remain anonymous.

As to prices, wow, they sure don't seem to have dropped to me. Another contributor with a full set of Jim Adams and Marty Keane catalogs worked up a price list for an appendix. Both Adams and Keane are known for holding prices. While $ may have stabilized in the 2,000 - 3,500 range, that's still heady territory for me. I also have kept printed sheets Howells rods from the auction site that can't be mentioned. They seem to be holding nicely.

Anyway, save your $; there's a lot in the Howells book {on WFP's production list} that will get the ole' tomcats a squallin' & 'clawin.'

As far as the hinge, yes, Howells rod actions tend toward the unique; all designed and built into the rod by Gary. This is one case where taper #'s really don't tell the story.

[Booman2]

Peacefisher confounds me with his statement that rods with Howells-like tapers "wear out prematurely." Not so for me: I have fished many Howells rods since 1972 and have found them to be absolutely reliable. They were built to catch fish, as opposed to being "parking lot rods." For example, my old 8'9" #9 is still perfectly straight - and I fished that rod when I lived on Kodiak Island and landed huge numbers of steelhead and 3 kinds of salmon with it. It's also been fished on the Dean River, the Babine and others.
Joe pretty much echoes my thoughts on Howells rod values. I don't own any now that I would want to have sold at 1990' prices. Demand here as well as overseas remains strong.

[gmflyfish]

I bought a used Howells from a Friend of mine and Gary. He caught a more than a few fish on it (he is a fish monger) many thousand of fish over the years he owned it. All the wraps are perfect as the day they left his shop and straight. I met Gary on his annual pilgrimage to Montana in the summer and he held court every morning at the Blue Anchor. I wish I had bought my Howells in the 1970's. The pricing is still $3000 on the used market. Those of us who own them love them and there are only 1300 of them.

[Booman2]

Wow! 10+ years later for this subject, and not much has changed IMO. Gary Howells rods still bring $2500-3500 and remain in demand. I have owned many more of his rods than my financial situation should allow, but consider them the best investments I have ever made. I can fish one of his standard tapers (8' 3 7/8oz. #5 for example) and at the end of the day will have lost very few fish and never have a wind knot in my leader. His ferrule work is superb, I have never heard of a problem with them, and his varnish work is among the best ever. To my knowledge, he is the only major rod builder that produced rods finished by spraying, brushing and dipping.
I am fortunate enough to have some of his very early rods, including #3709 one of his personal rods. It has been fished very hard for many years and will go to Montana in 4 days for another workout. Happy Howells fisher here!

[PYochim]

An interesting thread that escaped me the first time around. I found Mr. Wagner's dissertation humorous as well as factual because the poobah persona is present in all walks of life.

[SpringCreek]

To this day I find "The Grand Poobah" one of my favorite reads.

[Flykuni3]

Quote #1: Howells says he makes the shorter rods because of “demand.” (Gary double underlines “demand” in ink.) He continues, “I personally don’t find them adequate for normal fishing distances of 20-30 feet.” And in the last paragraph, “My own 7ʹ3ʺ is a constant companion and has caught over 4,000 trout, the best being a 7¼ lb brown.”

As far as the hinge, yes, Howells rod actions tend toward the unique; all designed and built into the rod by Gary. This is one case where taper #'s really don't tell the story.

Interesting to see this thread resurrect, and the 7'3 quote, because the one time I got him on the phone that's exactly what he told me.

I've had a few of his rods, sold off most and have kept what I feel are the best (for me). As said they are softer and not for all, but if you can hang with their gentility, you will be rewarded -- I think they are some if not the smoothest rods I've fished. I bought a fine 7 1/2' 2 1/8 oz stick, fished it with a Sylk on a cool California freestone and oh my, it was gentle on my mind. Ok, Glen Campbell. Seriously, it was gentle on my mind, I let it fly, let the taper work, did not force it and the rod cast -- and smoothly -- perfect 25' roll and roll-snap casts (I throw a roll and lift into a quick backcast in tight spaces). Count me a fan. His tapers, design, cane color, bag and label (they count), and that super finish make an almost perfect bamboo rod. For me. Your mileage and gentility may vary.

[DaveNJ]

I've had two Howells Rods. I had the lighter 8' 5wt...... and I didn't care for it at all. Then I briefly had the 6'3" 3wt, and it was one of the nicest rod I've ever cast. Ever.

The aesthetics and craftsmanship of both were as nice as any rod I've handled, and the personal touches of the labels were pleasing. Match that with the Winston lineage and that's why his rods are valuable. When you find a pleasing taper of his and get all the other juju along with it it's as good of a rod as anyone elses out there, within reason.

[creakycane]

GHH rod values, it can be an interesting journey…

Eventually I found a very early 7.5’, 3 3/8oz, 6wt on Per Brandin’s web site. The moment it came out of it’s tube I sensed perfection. Once it was assembled, the first few underhand twitches of the tiptop displayed the action’s immediate recovery; it wasn’t slow ! I had found a masterwork of hollow building craftsmanship, with a medium action all the way, smooth as silk.

That Howells configuration is one that Gary mentioned specifically to me as one he liked, but when we had the conversation (probably 90 ish), he said it was not a popular one ie, partially due to graphite influence, longer lighter lines were in fashion. He was pretty emphatic about it when I was talking about rods for my (at the time) northeastern larger freestone fishing...........