Seeking Recommendation for Sea-Run Cutthroat Taper

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Stevefx
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Seeking Recommendation for Sea-Run Cutthroat Taper

#1

Post by Stevefx »

Happy New Year.

I’ve set a goal to make a rod specifically for sea run cutthroat before the end of winter. Initially I was considering an 8.5’ 6WT taper such as the Payne 204. However, after talking to Leland Miyawaki, a NW legend when it comes to fishing for SRC, he recommended at least a 9’, or better, a 9.5’ rod. His rationale for the longer rod is that the slope of some of the beaches where he fishes are such that you can’t wade too far out and thus it’s easy to snap off your fly on beach rock on 50’+ back cast.

I’ve enjoyed the Dickerson and Payne tapers I’ve made over the past couple years and, taking Leland’s advice, would like to find a 9' to 9.5' taper with a medium fast action in 6WT to 7WT.

The tapers I’ve been considering include the Payne 206, FE Thomas 9632, FE Thomas Streamer, Powell 9’6” hollow, the Leonard Tournament (though I don’t know the line weight), and the Gould Steelhead RR113. Unfortunately, I’ve not cast nor am I familiar with the action of any of these tapers.

I would be grateful for any thoughts, suggestions, or recommendations.

Best Regards,
Steve,
Fall City, WA

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Fcs
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Re: Seeking Recommendation for Sea-Run Cutthroat Taper

#2

Post by Fcs »

I'd be interested in src taper advice also. We are planning to relocate from Wisconsin to the "fourth corner" next summer and src is high on my gotta try list.
"Wherever the fish are, that's where we go."
Richard Wagner

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Re: Seeking Recommendation for Sea-Run Cutthroat Taper

#3

Post by mrampant »

Hi, my first thought would be looking at a switch/spey rod if rocks on the backcast are an issue, and gaining distance with the possibility of ocean winds. If a single handed rod is your goal I like the garrison tapers; and the 221 is getting close to 9'.(8'9")
I went for sea run browns (Tasmania) a couple of months ago and I made and used a switch at 12' and was a lot of fun with a 420grain head. I managed to get 40 meter casts (120-130 feet) consistently when the wind was favorable, and a lot less effort than using a single handed rod.
Best of luck with your looking and choice.
Cheers,
Mark
He who shall not be able to make a trout fly, after studying these diagrams and directions, must be deficient either in brains or in manual dexterity. : Edward Fitzgibbon 1853

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Fcs
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Re: Seeking Recommendation for Sea-Run Cutthroat Taper

#4

Post by Fcs »

Sea run cutts are a little different, in that you (mainly) fish them on the beach during tidal flows, not actually in the rivers. You make a fairly long cast and retrieve the fly all the way back to you, then move and repeat. You don't swing the fly like you do in river fishing. There is a tide but no river current. So I'm not sure if a switch or spey rod would work that well. The typical src rod seems to be a 9-10ft 5 or 6wt graphite.

My knowledge of this is all theoretical from reading so I'd welcome rod advice from anyone with on the water experience.
"Wherever the fish are, that's where we go."
Richard Wagner

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Re: Seeking Recommendation for Sea-Run Cutthroat Taper

#5

Post by SpringCreek »

A switch rod or shorter spey rod is ideal in this situation. Moving water is not needed to utilize a spey or switch cast, that seems to be a somewhat common misinterpretation. As long as you can create an anchor, you can make the cast. In fishing for SRC's in Puget Sound I commonly used an 11' switch rod (albeit graphite not cane). The additional distance I was able to get from the rod was a huge advantage and I didn't have to worry about what was behind me.

I don't have a specific taper to recommend, however, if I were to build a rod I would use hexrod to shrink the Warra 12'6" spey down to an 11' rod for either a 5 or 6 weight.

Just my thoughts.

Jim
Then as it was, then again it will be. Though the course may change sometimes, rivers always reach the sea. - Led Zeppelin, 10 Years Gone

http://www.splittingcane.com

afried
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Re: Seeking Recommendation for Sea-Run Cutthroat Taper

#6

Post by afried »

For a good look at searun fishing in the Puget Sound region see Leland Miyawaki's article in the Feb-March 2018 issue of Fly Fisherman magazine. There most definitely is current with the tidal changes in much of the Sound as well as the connecting Admiralty Inlet and Straight of Juan de Fuca - on the whole it's like a huge river that changes direction four times a day. And generally speaking it's the times and places of moving water that you want to be fishing. Andy

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Re: Seeking Recommendation for Sea-Run Cutthroat Taper

#7

Post by Fcs »

Thank you Jim that is very helpful
"Wherever the fish are, that's where we go."
Richard Wagner

mrampant
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Re: Seeking Recommendation for Sea-Run Cutthroat Taper

#8

Post by mrampant »

In Tasmania the sea-run browns are feeding on smelt/ whitebait so they are actively feeding fish and just as spooky but fishing them in tidal/ estuary areas is a precursor to them running into the rivers. Using a scandi or skagit head and bringing it all the way in to elicit a take is normal. I have to admit that most guys here use a single handed rod but the two hander gives me a better range.
Cheers,
Mark
He who shall not be able to make a trout fly, after studying these diagrams and directions, must be deficient either in brains or in manual dexterity. : Edward Fitzgibbon 1853

Stevefx
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Re: Seeking Recommendation for Sea-Run Cutthroat Taper

#9

Post by Stevefx »

Thank you all for your thoughts and recommendations.
I have very limited experience with Spey casting, and then only Single Handed. I can see the value of this casting technique on steep beaches.
I spoke with a couple others from the local fly fishing club and and they too confirm that Spey can extend the distance of a cast when the fish are off shore a ways. One however one admitted that 75% of the SRC he catches are within 40'(12 m).
tight lines. Steve

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Re: Seeking Recommendation for Sea-Run Cutthroat Taper

#10

Post by mrampant »

It might be worth looking at rods to suit single spey casting; a good roll casting rod design and either a single spey line or lined up; OPST has skagit lines suited for lighter rods.
I built a couple of Garrison tapers for this very purpose.
Cheers,
Mark
He who shall not be able to make a trout fly, after studying these diagrams and directions, must be deficient either in brains or in manual dexterity. : Edward Fitzgibbon 1853

bajema
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Re: Seeking Recommendation for Sea-Run Cutthroat Taper

#11

Post by bajema »

I asked a similar question here:
http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/for ... rc.128770/

Right now I'm planning on going with a Dickerson 8014 GS.

Tom Bowden
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Re: Seeking Recommendation for Sea-Run Cutthroat Taper

#12

Post by Tom Bowden »

Bajema's link to a Washington Flyfishing post includes my response. If anyone is interested in the tapers and specs for these rods, please let me know.

Tom
Lacey, WA

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Re: Seeking Recommendation for Sea-Run Cutthroat Taper

#13

Post by para_adams »

Steve,

I highly recommend you look into Chris Carlin's work. He lives and fishes AK and his ideas of 9' trout rods would fit the bill perfectly. I was fortunate to be able to purchase the rod he originally built for his trip to New Zealand. Very light in hand, a true 6 wt, and for me casts 60-75' comfortably. My only reservation was the tips seemed almost too dainty so he has the rod and is currently building a 3rd "heavier tip" for throwing weighted flies which I intend to fish on the Yakima River. If you know Leland I assume you're also in the Seattle area. I'll have that rod back from Chris in a few weeks and I'd highly recommend you give it a cast and consider using it to pattern your searun rod after. I think it would be the ideal 9' beach rod. And to Tom and Bajema, I'll plan to bring it this spring to our Bamboo Fling. Ron

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Re: Seeking Recommendation for Sea-Run Cutthroat Taper

#14

Post by Tom Bowden »

Here's a link to a video by OPST on single-handed Skagit casting in Puget Sound. I've never tried this, but it looks like a lot of fun and would work especially well if you didn't have back-cast room. The challenge for us bamboo guys would be to find the right head length and weight for the rod. I doubt that OPST's guidelines for graphite rods would translate to bamboo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-S33rLdsCo

Tom

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Re: Seeking Recommendation for Sea-Run Cutthroat Taper

#15

Post by Morten »

Fcs wrote:Sea run cutts are a little different, in that you (mainly) fish them on the beach during tidal flows, not actually in the rivers. You make a fairly long cast and retrieve the fly all the way back to you, then move and repeat. You don't swing the fly like you do in river fishing. There is a tide but no river current. So I'm not sure if a switch or spey rod would work that well. The typical src rod seems to be a 9-10ft 5 or 6wt graphite.

My knowledge of this is all theoretical from reading so I'd welcome rod advice from anyone with on the water experience.
I Scandinavia, notable in Denmark, coastal fly fishing for sea run browns has developed and been practised widely since the war. As we fish the coast in all weather conditions, the most widely used setup for this type of fishing would be 6-8 weight graphite, fitted with some kind of shooting taper. Most guys prefer a 30 feet intermediate(just to cut the waves) shooting head, fitted to a running line. OPST heads is being used by a few, including myself, but they have some disadvantages. I dont know about sea run cutties, but browns, when feeding at sea often comes very close to shore, and can often be seen just under your rod tip following the fly. For this kind of delicate fishing, the OPST heads, and a flimsy tip are not ideal. Trouts at sea, are often moving around in schools, and can be found by sighting the coast line. Precision casting to spotted fish, are IMO, also not the strong point of a skagit setup.

My point is, distance is fine, but 50 % of the fish are being caught close up.

For more information about coastal fishing for trout, I would recommend that you skim the net for all the Scandinavian blogs and movies(often in English), you might find many inspirations regarding flies for imitating sea life, as well as techniques adaptable to your fishing for sea run cutties.

https://globalflyfisher.com/keywords/sea-trout-flies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_VzxoBAzhI

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Re: Seeking Recommendation for Sea-Run Cutthroat Taper

#16

Post by carl otto »

If you have the ability to make an E. C. Powell taper hollow rod, then you can do no better then to pursue this path. I am certain that EC and his clients knew of and fished to SRC with EC's rods. He was one of the top west coast builders, developing rod tapers for that specific area. Dickerson and Payne developed good tapers also, but the lighter weight of Powell rods for this format would seem to be a significant plus.

Carl

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Re: Seeking Recommendation for Sea-Run Cutthroat Taper

#17

Post by 16pmd »

I agree that a 9 or 9'6" hollowbuilt E.C. Powell would be the top choice for a single hand rod to make repeated long casts. They tend to be much lighter and less top heavy than solid rods of that length and are outstanding casters. A steelhead Winston of the same size would be another good choice. Those two rods were the rods of choice for steelhead on the West Coast and the lighter models would be great for searun cutts.

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Re: Seeking Recommendation for Sea-Run Cutthroat Taper

#18

Post by perfesser »

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Last edited by perfesser on 07/01/20 16:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Don Andersen
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Re: Seeking Recommendation for Sea-Run Cutthroat Taper

#19

Post by Don Andersen »

Stevefx,

Many years ago John Bokstrom made several rods that he called Cutthroat tapers. These rods were designed to fish the sloughs and waters in the lower Mainland of British Columbia. They are 8’3” rods for 6 weight lines. I’ve built several of them and the owners have been pleased. I have one of them I use for long leader chironomid lake fishing where casts occasionally exceed 70’.
As an experiment and utilizing John’s original taper as a base, I modified the taper slightly to accommodate a hollowing technique. I beat the crap outta this rod for the last two years catching rainbows over 6 lbs. The rod preformed well and another is glued up for use this coming summer.
As John has passed and shared his tapers, if you or others wish the taper, I am sure he would be pleased to share it.

Regards,

Don

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Re: Seeking Recommendation for Sea-Run Cutthroat Taper

#20

Post by Fcs »

Don,
I’d like to build a rod like that. I’m sure some others would too.

Frank

Edit: I see there is an 8'3" 6wt Bokstrom taper in Gould's Tips&Tapers book. Is this the one?
"Wherever the fish are, that's where we go."
Richard Wagner

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