PHY Perfectionist
Moderator: pvansch1
PHY Perfectionist
#1I’m Looking for opinions.
What #’s are you using, those published by George Maurer and Ray Gould or those in Howell’s “Tips & Tapers” ?
FWIW, I’ve built 4 PHY rods taken from Howells book and have been pretty satisfied with each.
D
What #’s are you using, those published by George Maurer and Ray Gould or those in Howell’s “Tips & Tapers” ?
FWIW, I’ve built 4 PHY rods taken from Howells book and have been pretty satisfied with each.
D
"By the wood-shed is a brook. It goes singing on. Its joy-song does sing in my heart.”
Opal Whiteley
Opal Whiteley
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Re: PHY Perfectionist
#2I use the taper from the Maurer book, which I have seen published several places, the one with the .275 butt. That taper makes wonderful 4 wt. rod. I also occasionally use the taper in the Lovely Reed, with the .287 butt and the #14 ferrule, which makes a great 5 weight rod.
Re: PHY Perfectionist
#3Thanks Jim.
D
D
"By the wood-shed is a brook. It goes singing on. Its joy-song does sing in my heart.”
Opal Whiteley
Opal Whiteley
Re: PHY Perfectionist
#4Not to thicken the plot or add to the confusion, but Wayne Cattanach reportedly has numbers from PHY directly from the taper bars. They are supposedly published in his book. There's a 4wt. version with a .275 butt and a .284 butt version listed at the back among the other tapers. He doesn't give any of them names to indicate that they're PHY rods but apparently those are tapers straight from the taper bars.
Trying to replicate rods from a guy who used a mill, and then didn't stick to the same numbers through the course of his career is an exercise in frustration at best. But you can get close enough to enjoy the action he was trying to create. I built the .275 from the Mauer book but after I didn't achieve the mottled flaming on the cane that I was aiming for I let it sit for a few months. Then I decided to wrap it and finish it prior to a fishing trip and I was not disappointed. It's a nice DT4 and roll casts really well, which is what I needed for the waters I was fishing. The Perfectionist from Howells' book is on my list to do this year.
Trying to replicate rods from a guy who used a mill, and then didn't stick to the same numbers through the course of his career is an exercise in frustration at best. But you can get close enough to enjoy the action he was trying to create. I built the .275 from the Mauer book but after I didn't achieve the mottled flaming on the cane that I was aiming for I let it sit for a few months. Then I decided to wrap it and finish it prior to a fishing trip and I was not disappointed. It's a nice DT4 and roll casts really well, which is what I needed for the waters I was fishing. The Perfectionist from Howells' book is on my list to do this year.
Re: PHY Perfectionist
#5See if you can find the numbers for the Perfectionist that Banjo used to own. The one Young made for his wife, Martha Marie. I have no idea what happened to that rod. The taper has some idiosyncrasies, but it makes into a lovely-casting 4wt.
Re: PHY Perfectionist
#6Has Harry Boyd ever shared those or his #'s? I believe he mic'd the original rod.
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=52534&p=482969&hil ... yd#p482969
D
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=52534&p=482969&hil ... yd#p482969
D
"By the wood-shed is a brook. It goes singing on. Its joy-song does sing in my heart.”
Opal Whiteley
Opal Whiteley
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PHY Perfectionist
#7Dennis Higham and I did measure the original but were asked not to share those numbers publicly by Sante. I won’t share them with rod makers who say they intend to sell rods made to that taper as per Sante’s original wishes.
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Last edited by canerodscom on 03/22/20 17:10, edited 2 times in total.
Re: PHY Perfectionist
#8Thanks Harry.
Plenty of tapers out there to choose from.
Best, D
Plenty of tapers out there to choose from.
Best, D
"By the wood-shed is a brook. It goes singing on. Its joy-song does sing in my heart.”
Opal Whiteley
Opal Whiteley
Re: PHY Perfectionist
#10Don’t do that Lee. You helped me exercise my grey matter by remembering those early conversations concerning PHY tapers.
My 2nd & 3rd builds were Youngs, a MM gleaned from some obscure taper and a Midge taken from “Tips & Tapers.” They are my most fished rods.
D
My 2nd & 3rd builds were Youngs, a MM gleaned from some obscure taper and a Midge taken from “Tips & Tapers.” They are my most fished rods.
D
"By the wood-shed is a brook. It goes singing on. Its joy-song does sing in my heart.”
Opal Whiteley
Opal Whiteley
Re: PHY Perfectionist
#11I have the numbers on a couple Young Perfectionists. If your want them I can dig them out a give them to you, but to what end?
If you speak to Bob Summers at length he will tell you that the Young rod taper mill was a persnickety thing to operate. Gus Pernack developed it, Lyle Dickerson tried to get it to behave, but never to any great consistency. So you will find that although there may have been an "ideal" set up taper for the mill the rods produced from that set up varied. These taper variances coupled with the fact, one bamboo culm varied from the next ( being that bamboo is a natural material) and one flame/heat treatment varied from one to the next, sets up a multitude of possibilities that one Perfectionist might be good and another superlative even if the tapers were exactly the same. AND, there were cataloged 13 ferrule Perfectionists and 14 ferruled Perfectionist!?? Maybe the out of whack taper with the medium weight culm, lightly flamed made the perfect Perfectionist? Until someone puts all of the parameters down for a rod, we will never know.
Many people have made commendable rods using the published Mauer and Howell taper takeoffs. Careful evaluation might show that certain "tweeks" to these can improve the rods performance.
Carl
PS: Summer's experience at the Young shop led him to build a mill that is remarkably (of maybe not, knowing Bob) accurate. I once measured 3 of his 856's built over a 10 year period and the rods varied in taper by less than .002" across their flats and along their length.
If you speak to Bob Summers at length he will tell you that the Young rod taper mill was a persnickety thing to operate. Gus Pernack developed it, Lyle Dickerson tried to get it to behave, but never to any great consistency. So you will find that although there may have been an "ideal" set up taper for the mill the rods produced from that set up varied. These taper variances coupled with the fact, one bamboo culm varied from the next ( being that bamboo is a natural material) and one flame/heat treatment varied from one to the next, sets up a multitude of possibilities that one Perfectionist might be good and another superlative even if the tapers were exactly the same. AND, there were cataloged 13 ferrule Perfectionists and 14 ferruled Perfectionist!?? Maybe the out of whack taper with the medium weight culm, lightly flamed made the perfect Perfectionist? Until someone puts all of the parameters down for a rod, we will never know.
Many people have made commendable rods using the published Mauer and Howell taper takeoffs. Careful evaluation might show that certain "tweeks" to these can improve the rods performance.
Carl
PS: Summer's experience at the Young shop led him to build a mill that is remarkably (of maybe not, knowing Bob) accurate. I once measured 3 of his 856's built over a 10 year period and the rods varied in taper by less than .002" across their flats and along their length.
Re: PHY Perfectionist
#12I believe Quashnet has that rod
Lee Koch wrote:See if you can find the numbers for the Perfectionist that Banjo used to own. The one Young made for his wife, Martha Marie. I have no idea what happened to that rod.
Re: PHY Perfectionist
#13That about sums it up for me.carl otto wrote:I have the numbers on a couple Young Perfectionists. If your want them I can dig them out a give them to you, but to what end?
Thanks for the insight Carl. It explains my ongoing interest in, and bewilderment of published PHY tapers.
D
"By the wood-shed is a brook. It goes singing on. Its joy-song does sing in my heart.”
Opal Whiteley
Opal Whiteley
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Re: PHY Perfectionist
#15While this may certainly be true, it is my gut feeling (supported by a fair amount of woodworking experience beyond making bamboo rods) that the combination of long thin bamboo strips, with their inhomogeneous makeup, and especially their wayward nature at knot stations, and the hamfisted nature of many industrial bamboo taper 'shapers' (including PH Young's mill, the P&M mill, Powell's taper saw, or Hardy's saws) is certainly responsible for a significant amount of that variability/inconsistency.perfesser wrote:i personally think that many times these variations in measured final dimension are due to sawdust or chips getting trapped in the glue during binding, and/or inconsistant binding pressure during glue up, and not neccessarily inconsistant milling.